Which language is the closest to Ukrainian?

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by Kathy
Greetings Zbyszek - thank you for the correct spelling of zegarek - I transliterated (a tricky business) from Ukrainian. "Khodete" is "walking in Ukrainian, as well.

I disagree that Ukraine needs Ukrainian language to develop normally as a nation state. Ukraine was subservient to Moscow for 50 years or more, it has no history of leading politicians, for the best leaders, Ukraine's best minds (many now serving in the Russian government) have always moved to Moscow. This, not language, is the reason Ukraine does not have a well developed state today.

With the collapse of communism, Russia's politicians have studied their great Tsarist diplomats, such as Gorchakov, in formulating international policy. Ukraine, ruled by second rate hicks, is mired in corruption more rampant than in many African countries - a shame for all Ukrainians. Ukraine is a laughing stock in the world, and that is a reality.

Language must develop naturally, it cannot be forced. If Ukraine's youth wishes to speak Ukrainian, this will happen. I believe the Ukrainian government should encourage such policies with grants and incentives, but not by force. Unfortunately, such policies are beyond the understanding of most of Ukraine's current politicians - commie scum who continue to suck the life out of Ukraine.

Greetings Kathy/Katya/Kasia, you are right of course, language can not be forced upon people. However, any reasonable government tries to create favourable cultural environment, so important in making language live and develop. A long-term policy is really needed. I realize how difficult it is now and how delicate this matter is. Some disputants (Vanya, Zhuk, Andrej) made me aware of it. Andrej's statements are maybe not welcome here but they show well the practical aspect of the language issue in Ukraine. They should be taken into account. How sad to conclude that the present UA gov't misses its people's expectations to such a degree!

[Kathy]

Greetings Zbyszek. The current Ukrainian government could take an approach similar in Canada - encourage Ukrainian language programming, schools, make bureacracy Ukrainian friendly, but these programs cannot be forced. Another problem is that Russia is playing the oppression of minorities card with the EU - the Baltic Republics have had this played against them, which may delay their acceptance into the EU.

Russian is now going to have the same status in Ukraine as Ukrainian (a law has been drafted), and I suspect this is the reason why. My solution - let them co-exist, take baby steps, and little by little, Ukrainian will become the predominant language.

[Andrej]

Kathy, although the law has been drafted, the lefties would need to get 140 votes on top of the 165 that they compose in order to pass this bill. Something tells me though, it might just be...

[happy_gunner]

Originally posted by Kathy
Another problem is that Russia is playing the oppression of minorities card with the EU - the Baltic Republics have had this played against them, which may delay their acceptance into the EU.

In the case of Latvia at least, Russia have been totally justified.
When someone walks into a Russian bookshop, asks for Russian books, in Russian, gets an answer in Russian, and tries to shut the business down for not conducting business in the official language, then there is some serious growing-up needs to be done.
Similar to the morons who say "Odesa" "Eire" "Myanmar" "F.Y.R.O.Macedonia", and my favourite from General Franco : Changing "Barcelona FC" to "Barcelona CF" ie Just the sort of childish PC crap that the USSR loved so much.
Sorry about the rant, I just want to shoot the above people

But I can't see why Ukraine can't have both languages co-exist as you say, because the Welsh have managed it, and as these boards show it is only certain elements of the diaspora that get upset by Russian being spoken in Ukraine.

[Kazhan]

happy_gunner, I really don't understand:
I always say "Odesa" because the city name is "Odesa" in Ukrainian - are you suggesting I am a moron and you'd like to shoot me for it?

Regarding your original question (what language is the closest to Ukrainian) - it's hard to measure the distance between languages in inches or miles Russian is closer in terms of alphabet, syntax and grammar, but many words that sound similarly in Ukrainian and Russian have different meanings. Polish is also close to Ukrainian, but the pronunciation differs a lot - Zbyszek is absolutely right at this point. I don't really know Slovak, but I can grasp the general meaning when I read something in Czech, Slovak, Bulgarian, Serbian or Croatian - all these languages have the same origins as Ukrainian or Polish.

The only thing I might conclude from all this is that it would be pretty complicated to learn Ukrainian 'through' Slovak. If you are learning Russian, either Ukrainian, Slovak or Polish might be the next step, depending on your actual goal.

Good luck.

[Edited by Kazhan on 3rd February 2003 at 03:06]

[Kazhan]

On "many different Ukrainian languages":

Yes, there was a commission that tried to standardize the language. There's been a lot of fuss about the changes they proposed, but no final decision reached the public. I work as a translator, so I tried to find the results of their 'work' published, and I failed.

Kathy wrote:
"There is an official language that everyone understands but no one speaks."

Kathy, I would disagree with that. People DO speak "official" Ukrainian - I mean the language in which books and newspapers are published, TV and radio programs are broadcast and songs are sung. I do speak it myself and so do lots of people around.

But I would totally agree with you on the other point: there will be no improvement until we have the Ukrainian government that cares for the country.

Dear Zbyszek, we do have all these Institutes and Academies, but they are full of 'professors' and 'academicians' who wrote their theses on Marxism-Leninism, and their philosophy had not changed since those times.
Sad as it may sound, there's still a long way to go before Ukraine manages to build up a REAL nation.

The major problem in co-existence of Russian and Ukrainian languages is that Russian is aggressively promoted. I know that many people here are very cautious about nationalism and things like this, but it is getting harder and harder to remain 'neutral' in Ukraine nowadays. The war goes on, and one must be blind not to see it.
In this respect, we must protect our language by ourselves, because the government is of no use here.

[happy_gunner]

Originally posted by Kazhan
happy_gunner, I really don't understand:
I always say "Odesa" because the city name is "Odesa" in Ukrainian - are you suggesting I am a moron and you'd like to shoot me for it?

Sorry wasn't being rude not answering I've been away from the board.
Yes I didn't put that very well. I'm not going to buy a Kalash and embark on some "linguistic cleansing", my contempt is for the arrogance of certain people regarding place-names.
Since Hitler doesn't rule the world we are free to call a city by whatever name we choose but a certain pillock on here had a pop at someone for saying "Odessa". The correct pronunciation and spelling of a place name is a matter for the inhabitants of the place itself and no-one else. The inhabitants of Odessa that I've met on the occasions I've been there are proud to be Ukrainian and always refer to it as "Odessa".
How the **** can someone claim to have a superior viewpoint than the inhabitants of the city???
Similar to F.Y.R.O.M. If the Macedonians call Macedonia "Macedonia" (or Makedoniya depending on the transliteration used) then "Macedonia" it is, whether or not some Greek politicians cry their eyes out and stamp their feet.

Thank you for your answers.
You mentioned aggressive promotion of a language, anyone thinking that it's a good idea should speak to the Irish. For many years Irish was compulsory in Irish schools with the predictable consequence that it became seen as a pain in the backside.
Similar in my schooldays (in England) French was compulsory, a language that is about as much use to an English schoolkid as Abkhazian. The result is that we are now the worst in Europe regarding knowledge of foreign languages.
Regards