Official language(s) of Ukraine?

[Timofei]

I came across these polls of public opinion in Ukraine http://www.ukraine.ru/sociology/fom/ . The web-site that is presenting them √ Ukraine.ru √ is absolutely Russian gov▓t propaganda (a filial of the Kremlin-run Strana.ru), but the polls themselves are carried out by the Public Opinion Foundation √ Fond ⌠Obshchestvennoe mnenie■ (FOM) √ which, although it is Russian, is very highly respected among Western sociologists and political scientists, so the data should be accurate.

There are polls on a number of different subjects, and they are done with random and representative samples of around 2,000 respondents, and represent all regions of Ukraine.

There are two polls that are particularly relevant to the language issue.

The first http://www.ukraine.ru/fom/01_03_2002/table03.html asks: ⌠In which language is it easier for you to converse?■:

- In Russian √ 44%
- Both the same √ 16%
- In Ukrainian √ 40%

Of course, there is always a margin of error (usually around + or √ 5%), but there is a chart showing that they have done the same poll every week for about seven months, and the response levels show Russian dominating fairly consistently.

There is also a chart showing the breakdowns by regions, and as one would expect there are significant variations. (The percentages for the East are 88, 9 and 2, and for the West √ 3, 4 and 93 percent, respectively).

But the important thing is that at least as many Ukrainians (and quite probably more) prefer to speak in Russian.

The second poll http://www.ukraine.ru/fom/27_02_2002/table38.html asks: ⌠What do you think should be state policy with regard to the Russian language in Ukraine?■:

- Russian should be removed from official usage in all of Ukraine: 14%

- Russian should be made a second official language in only those regions (oblasts) where the majority of the population desires it: 37%

- Russian should be made the second official language of Ukraine: 41%

- Other answer: 2%

- Difficult to answer: 5%

The chart given is very interesting, as in addition to the overall results above, it also gives breakdowns by region, sex, age, education level, income, political preference, etc. There seems to be very significant variation again by region (of course), and also by political preference (which also relates to region, probably) and in the rural vs. urban category.

The important thing, though, is that here again, more people prefer to give Russian full official status. And if you combine the second and third answers above (that is, people who would give Russian official status at some level), then the preference in favor of giving Russian official status is overwhelming.

This is all based on preferences, of course, and not ethnicity. So the question is, why should Russian continue to be excluded on the on the official level? Given that at least as many people in Ukraine speak Russian as Ukrainian as their preferred language, is not Russian also a language of Ukraine? Language isn▓t inherently related to ethnicity after all (you don▓t have to be English to speak English, I presume). Is it tenable in the long run to have the minority dictate to the majority what language they can speak? Does public opinion not matter?

Comments?

Timofei

[CJLABKO]

Timofei
I'm impressed with your ability to apply stats to the issue at hand. Unfortunately, the manipulation of stats are frequently misused to sway public opinion in favor of usually one idividual or one group of individuals with one common thought full expecting to be challenged by discipline and principle. In this instance, the stats are inappropriate and are to be considered only as dysinformation.

Had the Russians never subjugated Ukraine to its tyranny and imperialistic attitudes, the topic of language would, again, never have been an issue. Only because the Russians forced their unwanted / uninvited presence upon the Ukrainians, we are now having to deal with the undesired issue of language choice.

Russian has N O official status in Ukraine because it simply doesn't fit. It is simply the left over foul residual of the former occupying regime. The sooner that Ukraine rids itself of the blemish the better she will appear and the better she will prosper.

Language is always based on ethnicity. When in England, English is the ethnicity, surprise, the language is . . . ENGLISH. Likewise in RUSSIA, GERMANY, ITALY, FRANCE, CHINA, JAPAN, SPAIN, PORTUGAL etc. . How could an academic mind such as yours see it any different way. Now if your of Jewish descent, you have to find a way to fit in and that's probably why in Canada, England and the United States ( and probably other countries ) a change in surname is usually the case. Why that happens, I really don't know. If your a Goretsky, why change it to Gore. It's as if no one will see through it.

Public opinion is the poor man's excuse to find popularity because he know's damn well that if stands out on his own, he'll get shot down. Likewise, minority / majority has nothing to do with it. Its all based on principle and disciplne just as you would teach a Ukrainian child to speak Ukrainian at home.

We had this mess forced upon us by the communist Russian invaders and now they're trying to keep that which does not belong to them. RAUUSSSSSS ! No Russian language belongs in Ukraine. It's tough to fight a cancer that grows uncontrollably. The best way to keep under grips is only to " CUT IT OUT ! " .

No choice here. Language of Ukraine? Simple . . .
U K R A I N I A N !

Your smart Timofei - go figure?

CJLABKO

[Timofei]

Hey Slavko,

Good to see you▓re back. Things were getting dull. No question that Russia has been tyrannical and had and has imperialistic attitudes. But all of the world▓s major languages are world languages as a result of imperialism √ English, French, Spanish, etc. And Russian is no exception.

Why is language based on ethnicity? You seem to be speaking English at the native level. Can you trace your ancestry to the Ango-Saxon tribes from which the language comes? If not, does that obstruct the role that English plays in your life? English is the national language of countries all over the world √ from North America to the Caribbean to Africa to South Asia to Singapore. Many, if not most, of the people in those countries live their entire lives completely in English. Does that mean they give a toss about crumpets and high tea or anything else that has anything to do with England (to say nothing of English ethnicity)? Or necessarily feel any particular loyalty or deference to England? You could say the same thing about the French speakers in Africa and the Caribbean, or Spanish and Portuguese speakers in Latin America.

For every example of a linguistic and ethnically homogenous country there is another example of a country with multiple languages and ethnic groups. Whatever the historical roots of the situation (and I▓m not sure that I can agree with your very black and white interpretation of Ukrainian history), Ukraine belongs to the multiethnic and multilingual category - like it or not. Russian is just as much a language of Ukraine as French is of Belgium or English is of Nigeria.

Maybe the important thing isn▓t so much what language a country speaks, but what the country is able to do and produce in their languages. Like I said in an earlier post, Ukraine has made a lot of contributions to world literature √ in the Russian language. In fact, Ukrainian literature in Russian is probably more significant than Ukrainian literature in Ukrainian. I mean Shevchenko, Franko and Lesa Ukrainka are great, but are they really on the level of Gogol, Bulgakov, Babel, etc.? (True, Ukrainian was restricted and oppressed in the Russian and Polish empires in the 19th century).

Why not take pride in the Ukrainian Russian language tradition? (All of Rus▓ comes from Ukraine originally, after all).

Timofei

P.S. Why are those stats above disinformation? Do you know of more accurate data or stats that contradict those above? (I▓m not asking to be argumentative √ I▓m really interested in this kind of stuff.

[iridium]

>. I mean Shevchenko, Franko and Lesa Ukrainka are great, but are they really on the level of Gogol, Bulgakov, Babel, etc.? (True, Ukrainian was restricted and oppressed in the Russian and Polish empires in the 19th century). <

i think it's funny, well actually sad, how long and inane your message was, but what caught my eye is where you contradicted yourself. "TRUE, UKRAINIAN WAS RESTRICTED AND OPPRESSED IN THE RUSSIAN AND POLISH EMPIRES IN THE 19th CENTURY"....

..this makes ukrainian authors even greater than any russian. they managed to gain recognition even though they were persecuted for doing so, banned from writing in their first language. just imagine just what kind of a great recognition they could have achieved if they were to be able to write in ukrainian freely.

as to speaking english, since this website is western based in countries that speak english this is our means of communication. it is good for a person to speak more than one language, giving abilities for more mediums for conversation. we don't have to be anglo-saxons to speak enlish.

what you quoted for a website- is i'm glad you point out yourself blatant propoganda. it sickens me even though it's Ukraine it has the .ru domain name. As for the regions, people in the east never had any pride in their background and always went with the russians. now these are the same people that are giving the opinions in the poles. the reason they vote so, is because they're too dumb and too ignorant to learn and speak ukrainian language, they only know russian and that is as far as their languistics go.

now for a jew such as yourself, your kind has no country nor any official language. you are like these eastern ukrainians, that whomever is in power, you will follow, as long as you're not bothered. if a nationalistic party came to power in ukraine, you and your people would quickly start speaking ukrainian and bash the russians.


C/\ABA YKPAIHI!

http://www.krib.org

[Timofei]

Originally posted by iridium
As for the regions, people in the east never had any pride in their background and always went with the russians.

That's not entirely true. The first real emergence of "modern" Ukrainian nationalism in the 19th century was around Kharkiv University and the "Kharkiv Romantics." It only caught on later in the West


Timofei