"the" Ukraine

[m_chymera]

Does anybody else get annoyed by people constantly refering to Ukraine as "the Ukraine". "The" should not be used before proper nouns, I often find it insulting when I here news readers, sports commentators etc saying this.
You don't here anybody saying "the England" or "the Germany."

Martyn

[JetSet]

ME TOO!

I am bothered to no end when people refer to Ukraine as "the" Ukraine! Ukraine is an independent country, not a subjugated region!

[Timofei]

I was in L'viv recently, and I noticed that many people even there, both old and young, would say "na" rather than "v" Ukraini, which I assume is origin of the problem with "the" in english. I several times corrected people, even though my side of the conversation was in Russian!

[Edited by Timofei on 19th November 2001 at 04:29]

[JetSet]

That's quite funny... yet strangely so.

I think that it's safe to say, that most of the western (english-speaking) world, is isolated from the dynamics of Western Ukrainian language.

My Ukrainian prof agrees that it is incorrect to refer to Ukraine as the Ukraine, and he has taught in Chernivitsi, as well as in Canada.

[m_chymera]

I'd never thought of "na" and "v" before. It's the same kind of thing, yet I can't see how they can have transfered from one language to the other.

Martyn

[Timofei]

Originally posted by m_chymera
I can't see how they can have transfered from one language to the other.

I think it happened because people translated the Russian way of speaking about Ukraine directly into English. The Russian way of thinking comes from "МЮ НЙПЮХМЕ" - "the borderland." (The borderland to Russia, that is). "Na" is usually used when talking about a distinct geographic region like island or mountain range (like "МЮ йСАЕ" - "in Cuba", or "МЮ ЙЮБЙЮГЕ" - "in the Caucasus").

рХЛНТЕИ а.

[Irena]

лМЕ РНФЕ ЯРПЮЬМН ПЕФЕР ЯКСУ, ЙНЦДЮ Ъ ЯКШЬС "МЮ".
ъ ЯВХРЮЧ, ВРН КЧДХ, ЙНРНПШЕ ЦНБНПЪР "МЮ сЙПЮХМЕ" - ЩРН НВЕМЭ МЕНАПЮГНБЮММШЕ КЧДХ, Х ЦНБНПХРЭ "МЮ сЙПЮХМС" РЮЙФЕ ЯРШДМН, ЙЮЙ ЦНБНПХРЭ "ДНЙсЛЕМР".