SS Galicia

[dobko]

[dobko]

Regardless of how one viewed the situation, the general agreement was that a military force of some Kind or another was needed. And a number of Galicia's Ukrainian leaders felt that they had to seize the chance to organize a professional military force for both immediate and future events and needs. And once organized, a sizable Ukrainian force could be used against any opponent and even, if necessary, against the Germans who originally had sponsored the raising of the Galicia Division.

One of the key players in this entire matter was Dr. Volodymyr Kubiyovych. As the head of the Ukrainian Central Committee (UCC), a non-political organization which arose under the Nazi occupation to control the refugee situation and promote -- as much as possible -- educational, vocational and technical schooling and training to the various refugees, Kubiyovych instantly realized that here arose an opportunity to exploit the Ukrainian cause.

It must be pointed out that had Kubiyovych, or anyone else within the UCC, been against this project, their protests would not have mattered. Despite his leadership position in the UCC, Kubiyovych was in no position to alter the events in the spring of 1943. Besides, European events were moving swiftly, and the German authorities would have been able to recruit a sufficient number of volunteers on an anti-communist theme. Fully realizing this, Kubiyovych went along with the project in the hope that through it, he could improve the desperate Ukrainian position in Galicia. In his post-war writings, Kubiyovych said that he felt that once the Galicia Division was raised, Hitler himself might reconsider his racist policy toward the Ukrainians (as Untermensch sub-humans -- Ed.) and, perhaps would have even accepted some form of Ukrainian statehood; if not, at least for the time being perhaps the harshness of Nazi rule would diminish. Additionally, in the spring of 1943, Ukrainian leaders learned that Poland's Governor-General Frank (who also controlled the District of Galicia), planned to conduct a mass deportation of the Ukrainian people from various areas of Western Ukraine in the summer of 1943 to make room for German colonists. With a sizable military force, Kubiyovych knew that the Ukrainians would be able to halt any such plans.

Of importance to note is that when Galicia's Governor-General, Otto Wachter, approached Heinrich Himmler, the head of the entire SS, with a proposal to create a front-line combat division from recruits within Galicia proper, Himmler at first did not know what to do. But shortly afrer speaking to Adolf Hitler himself, Himmler gave Wachter the green light and ordered the creation of the 14th Waffen SS Grenadier Division Galicia.

Despite Himmler's position as the head of the SS, voices of opposition immediately arose against his orders. Among Himmler's critics stood Erich Koch, the brutal leader of Ukraine; Karl Wolfe one of the top directors of Nazi Germany's Central Security Department; SS General Kurt Daleuge and 'Gebietskommissar' Harter. Harter especially emphasized the events of 1918 when arms provided by the German Army to the Ukrainians proved to be dangerous. Harter charged: "Arms meant for the Ukrainians in the Galicia Division would be utilized against the Germans.' There is the memory of what happened in 1918. In a moment of opportunity, they'll turn their provided arms against Germans."


Despite his critics, Himmier stood firm. The Galicia Division was established.

As in the case of many of the other foreign Waffen SS volunteer forces within the German Army in World War II, problems immediately arose in securing enough volunteers. While in general the Ukrainian population in Galicia was sympathetic towards the creation of such a force, problems immediately arose in the effort to obtain enough recruits.

To volunteer for army service -- any service under any circumstances -- takes a degree of inner toughness. But to volunteer knowing that soon one would be committed into combat, requires much more inner strength.

Despite the massive pre-induction rallies, despite the high volunteer figures, when the time came to go, a very sizable number of "volunteers" simply avoided service. One began to hear: "And what guarantees do the Germans offer? ...I will no longer enter the division. ...Instead I'll join the UPA." Of importance to note is that in the aftermath of World War II, these same individuals were among the very first critics of the Galicia Division. Yet, their criticism only fell on deaf ears; within Galicia, enough volunteers (16,000) came forward to establish a Division. And the rest is now history.

[dobko]

Probably the most complicated and fascinating matter in the aftermath of World War II regarding the Galicia Division (known in the concluding days of the war in 1945 as the First Ukrainian Division) are the numerous so-called "war crimes" charged against it. In the aftermath of World War II, but especially in the period of the 1970s and 1980s, the Galicia Division had many accusations made against it.

The Division was trained and became operational in 1944. The Galicia Division has been accused of committing "war crimes" in Norway in 1943, of participating in the shooting of innocent lives at Kiev's Babyn Yar in 1941; suppressing the heroic Jewish Warsaw revolt in April-May, 1943; of suppressing the Polish Warsaw uprising of 1944; of fighting in May 1944 in Italy against the allies at Monte Cassino; of being a part of the German 6th Army in 1942 with the mission of "cleansing" the rear area of the 6th Army. Committed into combat in the City of Stalingrad itself, the Division was largely destroyed and its remnants surrendered in January 1943; guarding the concentration camp of Auschwitz, Dachau, Belsen-Bergen, Mathausen; of killing innocent people in the cities of Odessa, Ukraine, Minsk, Byelorussia; of committing "war crimes" in the City of Lviv from 1943-45; and so forth. [Many of these accusations relate to events which happened long before the Division became operational in July 1944 and in places where the Division had never been]

Of importance to note are the numerous contradictions in these accusations against the Galicia Division regarding so-called "war crimes." Of course, every propagandist had his say. But despite the many numerous contradictions, in the end, none can be substantiated. Indeed, in some cases, the accusations are so sensational that in themselves they become totally worthless. But most importantly, all the accusationa are groundless, unreliable, very contradictive and cannot be substantiated. But as the years continue to go by there is no end to the falsehoods. Unfortunately, for the time being, these accusations will only continue.

Yet, as is always the case, the truth slowly emerges. Already various works have appeared which have shown the Galicia Division in its true light They are informative and portray accurately the Division's history. The Galicia Division will, in the end, find its rightful place in history.


Michael Logusz

[MichaelB_PL]

Originally Posted by benda

Michael, it seems to me that the only one goal you want to achieve in life is to "unmask" UPA. Otherwise I don't understand how SS - whether Estonian or Galician - can be "less nazi-like" than any other organization.

Yes, I understand that the view I expressed is a controversial one... But IMHO the ideology of OUN/UPA was quite similiar to Nazi ideology, while the Ukrainian and Estonian SS units did serve Nazis, but I'm not sure if they were Nazis themselves.

Originally Posted by Serhii

Does it mean that we, Ukrainians, know nothing about our history and have to listen to and agree with your interpretation ?

No, I do not think so. I do however think that some Ukrainians, especially from Western Ukraine and Ukrainian diaspora abroad, have serious leaks in their historical knowledge.

Then I'd like you to read latest Ukrainian serious ( not poor Polish and Russian propaganda) books on the problem. They are available now

In what exactly do the books written by Ukrainian authors disagree with what I have written?

we can speak openly at last , not only listen to your and your Russian colleagues lies.

In what aspect exactly do you disagree with me and what exactly do you call 'lies' and basing on what criteria?

Before it everyone should learn about so called pacification on those Ukrainian lands ( = Polish state terrorism against Ukrainians) , etc. And very simple question - How and why did that Polish civilian population come to Ukrainian lands ? Who were occupants ?

1. The act of the pacification done by Polish troops does not change the fact that UPA conducted organised genocide of civilians. It might be used to justify the genocide, but it cannot change the fact itself.

2.The act of the pacification done by Polish troops does not change the fact that OUN was basically a fascist organisation (ideologically).

3. The pafication itself was reaction to the terrorist actions of Ukrainian Nationalists, such as widespread action of arson of private property.

Oh my , Poles didn't allow Ukrainians to use the same stairs in buildings in L'viv and other our cities, to enter any university , etc., etc... only because of our nationality. And they did it on our land. Invalid Polish state was an example of hate propaganda and policy towards Ukrainians. OUN/UPA - was our answer. What did you expect to receive ?

Armed resistance and fighting against Polish goverment and Polish armed formations is one thing, mass murder of civilians is another thing.

So , you defend Ukrainians - nice to hear, you'd better not... Your colleagues , Russian chauvinists , have the same intention. We know why.

Nice change of topic, but what do you think about Ukrainian civilians who were executed by UPA?

As for the Ukrainians I "defend", I was surprised to learn that many Ukrainians saved Poles from UPA Holocaust and that some have lost their lives in trying to do so - obviously some Ukrainians were good people***, unlike OUN/UPA fascists.


*** As all people who have risked their lives to rescue another one's life from murder, regardless of nationality of the rescuer and the victim.


Michael

[Spak]

Originally Posted by MichaelB_PL

Really? Why?

When you ask these questions it seems like you didn't read my post at all. I already told you why... ok, I'll tell you again... ok, i'll put it in simple terms so that it will be more clear for you.

Nazi ideology: Ther German race is superior... others such as Jews and Slavs biologically and spiritually corrupt the German race and therefore must be eradicated everywhere. Read Mein Kamph and you will understand.

Nazi ideology obviously has >>>nothing<<< to do with OUN/UPA or any other Ukrainian freedom fighters as their only goal was to bring about the conditions where Ukrainians could live peacefully, and with dignity, in ther own ethnic territory.

What does all this mean you ask? It means that what you are doing is slandering Ukrainians in a way that falsely associates them with Nazi ideology... your actions are obviously intended to incite hatred towards Ukraine. It is against the law in most civilized countries to promote such vicious >>>opinions<<< as facts. I guess you don't live in one of those civilized counties.

Originally Posted by MichaelB_PL

Actually, it's a bit ironic, since I'm attacking OUN/UPA here and OUN/UPA was basically a fascist organisation promoting hate toward other nationalities, which commited genocide among other things. The paragraph you wrote about has a meaning bit like "Michal is doing a hate crime because he's saying the Nazis were evil war criminals".

Same kind of slander. Do you even know what the word "facsist" means? You sure don't use it correctly. It should be used to refer to a society where all "political" descisions are made alone by a centralized government or ruling class - the opposite of democracy. Your claim that this is what OUN/UPA fought for is again confused and mixed up. They promoted neither a fascist state for Ukrainians (or anyone else) nor did they promote hatred towards any ethnic group based simply on their ethnicity. They bravely fought against, and justifiably hated those who occupied Ukrainian territory whoever they were. They fought with the expressed goal of bringing about freedom and dignity for Ukrainians in their homeland. War is war... don't confuse even the alleged actions of a few with the goals of the whole.

The big irony here is that you feel justified in propagating the very same kind of hate crimes that you cry about.

Originally Posted by MichaelB_PL

I'm afraid you have no idea what UPA/OUN actually was - and while ignorance is no crime, you are guilty of it. Please read more about OUN/UPA, with special emphasis on:

1) Organised genocide of Polish civilian population of Volynia.
2) Hate propaganda of OUN/UPA in the 20-40s directed vs other nationalities.
3) Armed terror and murder directed at other Ukrainians

Again, these are not facts... they are claims. Anyone can claim anything. I claim you are a potato... is it true? To make the leap to equating claims with facts is just plain ludicrous! Learn to distinguish between the two.


Regards,
John Spak

[MichaelB_PL]

Soak, first of all, I'd like to thank you for conducting a cultured, meritorical discussion.

Originally Posted by Spak

Nazi ideology: Ther German race is superior... others such as Jews and Slavs biologically and spiritually corrupt the German race and therefore must be eradicated everywhere. Read Mein Kamph and you will understand.

Nazi ideology obviously has >>>nothing<<< to do with OUN/UPA or any other Ukrainian freedom fighters as their only goal was to bring about the conditions where Ukrainians could live peacefully, and with dignity, in ther own ethnic territory.

Spak, I generally agree with most of what you wrote above, but I come to completely different conclusions.

1) The Nazis did believe the race is the most important value and determining factor of a person and that the German nation contains the most superior racial qualities.


2) The Nazis did commit organised genocide , perceiving it as an act of defense (defense against "racial corruption"), historical justice ("revenge" vs the Jews for example) and an necessary thing for the creation of new, 'perfect' Germany.

3) The Nazis went outside of traditional morality, believing that their goals are more important than morality. (#2)

4) The Nazis created cult of personality ("Fuhrer")

5) The Nazis used terror against their political opponents.

As for Ukrainian Nationalists from OUN/UPA:

1) OUN/UPA did believe that nation is the most important value and determining factor of a person.

2) OUN/UPA commited organised , perceiving it as an act of defense, historical justice ("revenge" vs the Poles) and an necessary thing for the creation of new, 'perfect' independent Ukraine.

3) The OUN/UPA went outside of traditional morality, believing that their goals are more important than morality. (#2)

4) The OUN/UPA created cult of personality (OUN/UPA leaders, the 'providnik' position)

5) The OUN/UPA used terror against their political opponents (for example Bandera's OUN faction vs Melnyk's OUN faction).

Yes, there are differences, like difference in #1- the Nazis cared most about race and they cared about nationality second, while OUN/UPA cared only about nationality.

What does all this mean you ask? It means that what you are doing is slandering Ukrainians in a way that falsely associates them with Nazi ideology...

AFAIK Many Ukrainians living in Ukraine agree completely or partially with me on the subject of UPA - on this forum, you can check the posts of Benda (only partial agreement) or MaxHighlander (nearly complete agreement).

your actions are obviously intended to incite hatred towards Ukraine.

Why? If I would say that Nazis were a murderous and totalitarian war criminals, then would you call such a statement an attempt to incite hatred towards Germany?

It is against the law in most civilized countries to promote such vicious >>>opinions<<< as facts. I guess you don't live in one of those civilized counties.

Everything I'm saying here is supported with historical facts.

Same kind of slander. Do you even know what the word "facsist" means? You sure don't use it correctly. It should be used to refer to a society where all "political" descisions are made alone by a centralized government or ruling class - the opposite of democracy.

Do you know what (Bandera's faction) UPA did to it's political opponents? It murdered them (and yes, they were actually Ukrainians, Ukrainian patriots to add). To me it is the opposite of democracy.

Your claim that this is what OUN/UPA fought for is again confused and mixed up. They promoted neither a fascist state for Ukrainians (or anyone else) nor did they promote hatred towards any ethnic group based simply on their ethnicity.

Yes, they did promote a totalitarian, undemocratic state for Ukrainians - according to them , them and only them could lead the Ukrainian nation, without any room for democracy - I think Benda posted a link to a official research project made by Ukrainian goverment which speaks about it, maybe you should read it if you can read Ukrainian.

As for " nor did they promote hatred towards any ethnic group based simply on their ethnicity." - but they did commit organised mass murder of Polish civilian population of Volynia - do you claim that they did't do the mass murder or do you claim that they have done the mass murder but did't promote hatred toward any ethnic group basing simply on their ethnicity?

They bravely fought against, and justifiably hated those who occupied Ukrainian territory whoever they were. They fought with the expressed goal of bringing about freedom and dignity for Ukrainians in their homeland. War is war... don't confuse even the alleged actions of a few with the goals of the whole.

What do you mean "alleged actions"? UPA conducted organised genocide of Polish civilians population and it's not "alleged action", it's been confirmed beyond doubt and the fact itself is widely accepted by Ukrainians living in Ukraine, even though moral judgement of it varies.

Again, these are not facts... they are claims. Anyone can claim anything. I claim you are a potato... is it true? To make the leap to equating claims with facts is just plain ludicrous! Learn to distinguish between the two.

Ok... so which of these 3 claims do you consider false?

Originally Posted by dobko

of suppressing the Polish Warsaw uprising of 1944

Yes, this is false, AFAIK based on distorted facts- there were some Ukrainian auxiliary units which indeed did take part of suppressing the Warsaw Uprising, which were LATER incorporated into SS Galizien.


Michael

[Serhii]

Hi Clay and John,
Go Oilers !
I know nothing about those oilers - just want to cheer you very much. I'd like to shake your hands ( maybe one day ). Till then - pryvit and Go Oilers again

You do not know what a joy is to read your posts for all of us who live in Ukraine. It's just amaizing that in far Canada you understand who is who. You ancestors left Ukraine just because of such Michals. Here in Ukraine during endless communist bloody monstrosity we had to listen only to them. Together with their Russian counterparts they 'tought' us our history. Their arguments were deportations, prisons and death for millions and millions of our people. They came to our home and declared us 'bandits, terrorists, etc'
Former the ussr and Poland were totalitarian countries that practised state terrorism against population. Ukrainians suffered the most under their rule.
That's why we still have so strong anti-polish and anti-commutist sentiments , especially in West Ukraine.

They like to visit our forums in the internet - you should see our battles with Russian chauvinists ( very similar to those Polish ones) ! That's normal - let them say , I think. We are open to any honest discussion. The most important thing as for me is that we are together and understand each other.

Razom nas bahato, nas ne podolaty !