14th SS division Galicia (Nr.1 Ukrainian)

[ada]

Please tell here Your, Ukrainian opinion.

14th SS division Galicia (Nr.1 Ukrainian) - heroes or murderers?

[Ivan_Mazepa]

Heroes.
A don't think German racist ideology, where Ukrainians are on the same level as a mule, motivated them. They were just fighting Stalin.

[JamesL]

General Pavlo Shandruk is buried here in New Jersey, USA. A section of the Orthodox cemetery is set aside for him and other members of the division. The headstones are large and impressive.

[ada]

Please understand that for us, Poles it is hardly to believe/trust that any SS group can be innocent (the same problem with Latvia and Estonia). So that's why I'm asking.

According to our relationship.

Mentioned Mr.Shandruk received Polish highest medal for his brilliant fights during September 1939.

But on the other hand SS "Galizien" (I know that name was little different but that is my abbreviation)had committed one documented crime.

Information from our government site.
http://www.ipn.gov.pl/index_eng.html

Investigation of the Crime Committed at the Village of Huta Pieniacka

The Head Commission for the Prosecution of Crimes against the Polish Nation received new, previously unknown documents regarding the murder of about a thousand of Polish inhabitants of the town Huta Pieniacka by the 14th sub-unit of the SS Division "Galizien" on February 28th, 1944.
Up to this point, 80 witnesses have been interrogated. According to the witness' testimonies, and in light of the documentation collected, there is no doubt that the 4th battalion of the 14th division of SS "Galizien" committed the crime. In the Chronicle of Military Operations of this division, a following note has been found regarding the Huta Pieniacka crime: "Our division began to write its history with blood." This fragment comes from the document received by the Head Commission from the Center in Ludwigsburg in 1999.

The Head Commission also turned to the General Prosecutor of Ukraine asking for any documents pertaining to the 14th division of SS "Galizien," particularly to the crime committed by members of this formation in Huta Pieniacka. On Feburary 14th, 2000, the General Prosecutor's Office answered that the Archives of the Security Office of Ukraine in the Tarnopol region lacks materials pertaining to the murder of about a thousand of inhabitants of the village Huta Pieniacka (located about 50 kms away from Tarnopol) on Feburary 28th, 1944.

In January 2001, British television showed a film entitled "SS in Great Britain." During the film a document entitled "The List of names of SS members nominated to non-commissioned officers" was shown. The list contains 48 names. The Head Commission turned to the author of the film, Julian Handa asking him about the source of the previously unknown document. The film was based mainly on documents of the investigation currently conducted in Poland. The author of the film informed that this document comes from the National Archives in Kiev.

The prosecutor conducting the investigation turned to the Prosecutor General of Ukraine, once more, requesting to institute a search for documentation pertaining to the 14th division, referring to the information obtained from Julian Handa. Recently, the General Prosecutor's Office of Ukraine sent certified copies of previously unknown documents, coming from the Ukrainian National Archives in Kiev. Among the documents, there is a fragment of the "Chronicle of February 25th, 1944. Information inferred from the "Chronicle" remains in contradiction to the hitherto established facts of the investigation.

In the light of the hitherto established facts, the crime was committed by the 4th battalion of the 14th division on the 28th of February. On that day, early in the morning, soldiers of this division, dressed in white, masking outfits, surrounded the village. The village was cross-fired by artillery. SS-men of the 14th Division of SS "Galizien" entered the village, shooting at civilians, who were rounded up at a church. The rounded civilians, mostly women and children, were divided and locked in barns which were set on fire. Those trying to run away were killed. Witnesses interrogated by the prosecutors of the Head Commission described the morbid details of the act. The crime was committed against women, children and newborn babies. After murdering the inhabitants of Huta Pieniacka, the local Ukrainian population robbed the remaining property of the murdered.
It is difficult to regard the statement included in the "Chronicle," saying that these were other German troops, not the entering 14th Division of SS "Galizien," as true. The "Chronicle" does not show which German troops committed this crime. Polish witnesses testified that only at the beginning of the criminal action orders were given by German officers. The orders were, however, executed by the Ukrainian members of that division.

Because of the film "SS in Great Britain," by Julian Handa, showing that 8,000 members of the 14th Division and other Ukrainian formations were admitted to the territory of Great Britain in 1947 with the right of residence, British prosecutors were to arrive in Poland. They were to get acquainted with the outcome of the investigation currently conducted in Poland, and to receive witnesses' testimonies related to the crime of Huta Pieniacka. The SS membership alone, that is considered to be a criminal formation, is not subject to prosecution due to the expiry of validity. The SS-men, who are alive, may be prosecuted for their complicity in the genocide.

In the fragments of "The Chronicle of the 14th Division of SS Galizien," there is the following entry on the criminal activity of Ukrainian guerilla fighters: "In the village of Demydkowycze, the underground army fighters encountered the heavily fortified bunkers nearby where Jews were hidden. The underground army fighters crushed the bunkers. They killed two hundred Jews."

June 26th, 2001.


I've also received information from Simon Wisental center:

The Ukrainian SS was primarily deployed to battle the Red Army.As such,they were not particularly infamous for
crimes against humanity as SS men. But what most people do not know ,is that many of the 100,000 or so members of the "Halychina Brigade"(14th SS ) were recruited from special Ukrainian police battalions whose members were
notorious for war crimes against innocent men,women,and
children,especially,but not only against Jewish victims.As such,the same people who did not commit war crimes while in SS uniform, may have done so only months earlier as police and other nazi-sponsored volunteers.
These volunteer police units were called "schutzmannschaefte"and
operated not only in Ukraine,but in the Baltic countries and Belorussia as well.

------------------------
If anyone wants to find more information- the mentioned Polish government site tells people of every official investigations (also against Poles) against people who had killed Ukrainians, Jews, Poles during the WWII and after etc.
So if anyone knows eyewitness of anything connected with the crimes committed by Poles - just write to them. I can assure You that they would react.
-------------------------

What was my intension is to provoke You into discussion on the topic:
"When and why independence fighters can became murderers". And I'm really interested in: "Why the neighbours were killing each other?"
And as I wrote - I would be happy of any information of memoirs of people hurted by Poles.

[Ivan_Mazepa]

Thanks, ada- good educational read.

...When and why independence fighters can became murderers.
Thats what soldier do, they murder each other. But if you mean why it goes beyond the military casualties, into casualties of the civilian population (total war), that's a more serious question.

..And I'm really interested in: "Why the neighbours were killing each other?"
There's an english saying I learned- Good fences make good neighbors. I'd say it's almost ideal in Ukraine-Poland case.

And as I wrote - I would be happy of any information of memoirs of people hurted by Poles.
I'd look around on the net or a library.
(in English of course)

[ada]

Originally posted by Ivan_Mazepa
Thanks, ada- good educational read.

...When and why independence fighters can became murderers.
Thats what soldier do, they murder each other. But if you mean why it goes beyond the military casualties, into casualties of the civilian population (total war), that's a more serious question.

..And I'm really interested in: "Why the neighbours were killing each other?"
There's an english saying I learned- Good fences make good neighbors. I'd say it's almost ideal in Ukraine-Poland case.

And as I wrote - I would be happy of any information of memoirs of people hurted by Poles.
I'd look around on the net or a library.
(in English of course)

Yes, I meant beyond military casualties. What makes people's hearts like stones. What made some people to be able to kill children? And why some of them were saving lives (You have only a litlle less trees on "righteous among the nations" gallery than Poles) while the others were killing (I mean also Poles). The same history, the same resentments.
My granny was saved by Ukrainian administrator of the village in Vysoke (Toustobaby)[My best dream is to find him or his familly and say THANK YOU]. He came to her during the night and told her: I cannot protect You any more. She had half an hour to take everything she wanted. When they opened the door they saw painted inscription on their door (written by UPA): "2+1" what meant "in this house there are 2 adults and one child to be slaughtered". And the child was 1,5 years old. And that's why I cannot find my compassion to victims of Wisla Action - they lost they property - but all memento's I have after my Grandparents; is two photos of Granny and her scarf. Not a single thing more. And not 3 hours to pack, but only 1,2 hour. But I do feel compasion to those victims of Wisla Action, who had died because of it.

How on earth, in XX century such things could have happened?

What do You think of Oleh Tiahnybok? Is he dangerous, or only noisy?

[Ivan_Mazepa]

Originally posted by ada

What do You think of Oleh Tiahnybok? Is he dangerous, or only noisy?

I wish I knew who Oleh Tiahnybok is. (Tells you how important he is ) I ran his name on a search and came upon that he's a windbag who got expelled from Yu.'s party for his comments.
http://www.razom.org.ua/en/news/print/1472
His face does look familiar to think of it. Never heard of him before the election campaign, nor since.

Organization of Ukrainian Natinalists -they're good patriots- but I have problem with them.

A) Their methods.
They present too harsh a face and don't try to appeal to the minorities and in the near future I don't see the minorities moving away, so cooperation is needed.

B) It's a limited, regional party-> they have no chance of becoming a serious political force-> no use in voting for them, but rather focus the votes into one strong patriotically-minded party. For example, in the 90s, OUN, Respublikanska partiya, Rukh, and other national democrats would fight each other for the same votes in W. Ukraine.

C) Extreme right are not good and eventually join the extreme left (Circle of life )- like Korchynskiy from UNSO.