14th SS division Galicia (Nr.1 Ukrainian)

[ada]

Originally posted by benda
About Khmelnytskyi - you are a clever person and you have to understand that cruelty of his people (concerning Poles - we discussed Jews earlier) was provoked by Polish actions.

Of course I understand. Poland was severly sick. Noblemen -mostly degenerats.

But on the other hand I would NEVER understand killing children (eg. Chmielnicki's hanging child on mother's neck..)

[MiguelMichael]

nobody feels grief to Ukrainians for what they did,ada.
it's only about guilty conscience of Ukrainians.they should face the darkest side of their history related to OUN and UPA so they will not repeat it again.and in Lviv and Tarnopol you can see Bandera's street,museum of UPA and its ,,veterans'' sitting in parks.all municipal local authorities in west Ukraine are nationalistic and glorify UPA.Batkivschina-party of Julia Timoshenko organized antipolish demonstration last year called sth like ,,Volhynia-our ground.OUN-UPA-our heroes''.

I know that Ukraine had been through more hardships than anyone else in Europe but it can't act like it always was untainted and saint.

[dobko]

Originally posted by MiguelMichael
they should face the darkest side of their history related to OUN and UPA so they will not repeat it again.

I know that Ukraine had been through more hardships than anyone else in Europe but it can't act like it always was untainted and saint.

Repeat it again, Micheal? What year do you live in?

As for acting like an untainted saint, Ukraine has had good teachers.

[ada]

Originally posted by MiguelMichael
nobody feels grief to Ukrainians for what they did,ada.
it's only about guilty conscience of Ukrainians.they should face the darkest side of their history related to OUN and UPA so they will not repeat it again.and in Lviv and Tarnopol you can see Bandera's street,museum of UPA and its ,,veterans'' sitting in parks.all municipal local authorities in west Ukraine are nationalistic and glorify UPA.Batkivschina-party of Julia Timoshenko organized antipolish demonstration last year called sth like ,,Volhynia-our ground.OUN-UPA-our heroes''.

I know that Ukraine had been through more hardships than anyone else in Europe but it can't act like it always was untainted and saint.

I know that alll. But what can we do here? Offend moderators or other members? They know about everything - they are open-minded.
They also know that there were Polish revenges.
We must think what can we do more. I'm at your disposal. ada.o@interia.pl
I bave been trying to organize an exhibition of UPA murders.

[benda]

Actually, XVII century itself was half-wild. I have read about cruel actions by CossaЯks and I won't deny it. But nevertheless I think it was Rzecz Pospolita who provoked them, though that maybe does not justify them - but. If we say Poles were just oppressing a little and Cossacks were very cruel - we are totally wrong. Actually, Poles always used Cossacks in their wars -and what? Even those who were in "reyestr" - were humiliated, oftenly not paid. And then, when Poles promised they wouldn't execute Cossacks' leaders - what was in the end? Execution - usually a very cruel one. Of course it is not written in any Polish book.
So I would say it is more Poles' fault than Ukrainians' (and remember I said only about Cossacks - and remember about peasants)in all the things we told about. But I can agree for two-side forgiveness and begging for it if it were not for people like Michael.
Pyotr - you are a clever man. Once I met a Volgogradish boy who didn't like Poles because they "allied with Germans during WWII" (I don't know where he had heard this absurdity). You are better - you unite with Poles yourself. Polska, be grateful!
I can say 101 time - I do not like UPA. But condemning them in a way you do is hypocrisy. Pyotr, a NKVD? Michael, Kraiova Army?

[ada]

Originally posted by benda
Actually, XVII century itself was half-wild. I have read about cruel actions by CossaЯks and I won't deny it. But nevertheless I think it was Rzecz Pospolita who provoked them, though that maybe does not justify them - but. If we say Poles were just oppressing a little and Cossacks were very cruel - we are totally wrong. Actually, Poles always used Cossacks in their wars -and what? Even those who were in "reyestr" - were humiliated, oftenly not paid. And then, when Poles promised they wouldn't execute Cossacks' leaders - what was in the end? Execution - usually a very cruel one. Of course it is not written in any Polish book.
So I would say it is more Poles' fault than Ukrainians' (and remember I said only about Cossacks - and remember about peasants)in all the things we told about. But I can agree for two-side forgiveness and begging for it if it were not for people like Michael.
Pyotr - you are a clever man. Once I met a Volgogradish boy who didn't like Poles because they "allied with Germans during WWII" (I don't know where he had heard this absurdity). You are better - you unite with Poles yourself. Polska, be grateful!
I can say 101 time - I do not like UPA. But condemning them in a way you do is hypocrisy. Pyotr, a NKVD? Michael, Kraiova Army?

And I will suprise you! Children at shools (or maybe only my mum, my history teacher are learning of the facts. We know of the bloody Wiśniowiecki. Real beast. No mercy for messengers. Cruel deaths of cosacks inpaled on pales.
Cruel treating of peasants. Ius prima noctis. Other stupid things. Generally that period of our country is not reflected in a positive way in Poland....

Why in XiX century during Polish uprisings peasants were not helping our fighters? Peasants were killing freedom fighters. Because for them freedom would mean still to be in cruel captivity.
We had in XIX century very cruel peasans uprisings. They did awfull things to landlords.
Unfortunately also to children (again innocent victims)....

[benda]

Oh, yes: about children - I haven't heard about murders of children by Cossacks.