Who started World War II ?

[StasUA]

From my(and some other peoples) point of view about this, that USSR started WWII.
But to argue about this, I need to hear other peoples views... so I am waiting.

[johnstruthers]

Stas, I would be interested to hear your reasons for believing that. All the evidence I have seen (and I lived through it) indicates that Germany's aggression was the prime mover. The USSR had no involvement at all until Hitler broke his pact with Moscow. What are your thoughts? How would you support your position?

[d_seven]

Good topic, Stas.
I would also be interested in hearing your views. So how, in your point of view, did the USSR start the war? From what I know about it, their first action was the occupation of eastern Poland and this happened only after Germany had invaded from the west.

As far as who started World War II, at least one source I've come across suggests that it all started with Japan's invasion of China. What is your opinion of this?

[grandma]

I don't know much about China or Japan. But I remember that in Belarus and Ukrain farmers show us places where people was killed. Stasiu, I've read Suvorov, and I'm agree with him. Really he just describe what we know before. Graves in all borders of the former URSS from 39th to 40th, execution of absolutelly pacific farmers, teachers, etc, - they only uspet the "work" of the Soviet Army. A very strange tactics of the Soviet Army. And a very strange "mistake" of Stalin. If you study a little tactics, you know that Suvorov say the truth.

[StasUA]

Ok, here it goes. After first WW Germany was not allowed to have army, to develope new war-machines, to train soldier. But Stalin gave this opportunity to them, - that was a beginning. Future German SS killers were trained by soviet NKVD. Technology of modern tanks was given to Germany by USSR, they showed germans how Kharkivs-factory that made 22 tanks a day(Fastest tanks in that time) works. Stalins goal was to make world-revolution, he thought, just like Marks and Lenin, that only a world war can lead to a world-revolution. So his plan was to make Germany fight all other western countries, and then invade them. First soviet actions were made against Finland and Baltic states. Stalin planned WWII, and knew results of it, long before Hitler did. Stalin created Hitler. When Germany started war against poland, Stalin send many trains with supplies to Germany, to help him, so he can destroy more. Germany attacked Soviet Union, and red army was destroyed fast, that is true, but there is a reason for that. Stalin was going to attack Europe in two weeks after Hitler attacked Stalin. Hitler knew he was going to lose, because after soviet invasion of Romania(Thats where Germany got it oil from) he understood Stalins plans. In a beginning of 1941, both Stalin and Hitler knew results of war that was going to end in 1945. Soviet Union was ready to occupy Europe in two weeks, soviet army was the fastest, the strongest army in the war. BUT, Soviet Union was ready to attack, but not defend, special NKVD forces were created by Stalin, that were shooting in the backs of its own people so they would go faster, as you understand, these forces were absolutely NOT needed during a war when you have to defend. Soviet tanks, the fastest tanks were built to go through European roads, those tanks could not fight in Soviet battles, they were just left on the fields... Hitlers invasion of Soviet Union was Stalins only mistake, if Stalin attacked a day before Hitler did, War would have been over in late 1941.

[This message has been edited by StasUA (edited 01 April 2000).]

[johnstruthers]

Whew! Heavy stuff. The most salient statement was "Stalin created Hitler." It is interesting that the facts you cite, in terms of Russia's aid to Germany during the '30s, are not usually cited as material cause for the War itself. In America, this cause-and-effect relationship is, in my revised opinion, passed over because it would undermine the official reasons for the US's alliance with Stalin later on.

But there is a large gap in the reasoning that strengthening an ascendant fascist empire would be to the advantage of World Communism. It doesn't follow. Strengthening your enemy in anticipation of a future battle with him doesn't compute.

In addition, Stalin liquidated his best and brightest generals, en masse, which would seem to undermine the notion that he was preparing for a Pan-European war. This would not be part of any strategic plan. How do you reconcile this, Stas?

[StasUA]

Stalin wanted to support Germany because his plan was to make all capitalists fight each other. And the, after a long war, when all capitalists are exhausted he would make a fast invasion. Stalin eliminated those generals that would not follow his strategy and thoughts.

There are too many facts that support statement that Stalin was going to attack.
1. As I said before, his tanks were made specially for German and French roads.
2. 2 weeks before German attack on Soviet Union, soviet soldiers were clearing their borders so they can easily attack, or someone can easily attack them, hmm.. which one is it?
3. Special NKVD forces that are created to stabilize control of city/town on enemy territory after red army occupie it, were moved very close to border with Poland(Occupied by Germany)

There are more facts, but I think that is enough.

[This message has been edited by StasUA (edited 02 April 2000).]