Ukrainian reaction to opression.

[johnstruthers]

Thomas, there is a thinly concealed indictment in this, and an unnecessary provocation. What do you mean, you're curious about the "psychology" of this? There are none of us living now who should be charged with the task of prying out a "psychology" that explains the horrors of that war. I suggest that you have an answer in mind, and I further suggest that you take it where it goes: into further speculation. Leave us out of it. Shame on you.

[Thomas_Anthony_Davies]

A "thinly concealed indictment" and "unecessary provocation"? I'm trying to write a paper explaining why collaboration happened, because the sentiments I've ever encounterd concerning Ukrainians have been
overwhelmingly negative and I know it's not as clean-cut as "Ukranians hated Jewish people" or "Ukrainians supported Nazi ideology." I understand that none of us can never fully empathise with the people who went through those horrors, but that doesn't mean that we can't try to explain some of it, does it? "Shame on me" for trying to understand what went on in the past? The only implication I think I made was that much of the Ukrainian collaboration with the Nazis was a direct result of Stalin's tyranny (I think I called it widespread opression). Does any of this make any sense?

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Thomas, there is a thinly concealed indictment in this, and an unnecessary provocation. What do you mean, you're curious about the "psychology" of this? There are none of us living now who should be charged with the task of prying out a "psychology" that explains the horrors of that war. I suggest that you have an answer in mind, and I further suggest that you take it where it goes: into further speculation. Leave us out of it. Shame on you.

[grandma]

This is the answer. It wasn't ideology or something so. If you have an enemy near you, and this enemy take you land, and is very dangerous, the enemy of this enemy can help you.

[johnstruthers]

Grandma has it correctly. Partners of convenience cannot be measured by a straight yardstick, but a tailor's measuring tape. Some Ukrainians did, indeed, choose to help the Germans. Many of these same ones also helped to chase the Germans out. In this case, bringing harm to your enemy has only an accidental benefit for your enemy's enemy. The Ukrainians who occupied Lopatin Forest in Volhyn were pure Ukrainians. They sabotaged Soviets and Germans with equal gusto. In time of war, one has strange bedfellows. The most stunning example would be the alliance of the Soviet Union and the western allies. Does this mean that the US and Britain share the blame for Stalin's excesses inside the USSR during the war? I think not, and only by a great stretch of reasoning.

[steve_vlasenko]

A subject close to my heart, as my maternal grandfather was an Ukrainian Partisan (Freedom Army). Did Ukrainians collaborate with the Nazi invaders? To some extent a small but not insignificant minority of Western Ukrainians did. However, this has to be seen in the context of the pervious decade of Stalinist terror. To really understand that period of Ukrainian history you need to have read something like Robert Conquest's "Harvest of Sorrow" (Or perhaps visit Ukraine) In the mean time, if you've got time and want to learn about Ukrainians tremendous suffering in W.W.II check out this web-site:- http://www.infoukes.com/history/ww2/.
If you're ever in Kyiv you have got to check out the War Museum. It will set straight any notion of mass Ukrainian collaboration and put you, graphically, in the picture as to the suffering of the nation.
One final point on Ukrainian collaboration with the Nazi:- The city of Kyiv held off the Nazi forces for twice the time the entire country of France did. Collaborators... I think NOT.
Vlas.