Worst period of Ukraine

[StasUA]

When was worst period of Ukraine? When Poland and Russia occupied Ukraine, or during Russian empire, when Russia had a program "Eliminate Ukrainian culture" ?

[grandma]

Can you say me, Stasiu, what period was the best in our history?

[StasUA]

Well It is not the subject, It is opposite, but I think that it was "Kievan Rus" countries respected us, we had good trading routes, we fought enemies well, and Kyiv thrived! At some point of 12th or 13th century, Kyiv had the largest population in known world(Europe) it was more then 100,000 citizens, and in Paris it was only half of that.

[This message has been edited by StasUA (edited 01 February 2000).]

[johnstruthers]

There have been many bad times in Ukraine, but I think the worst was the most recent: the deliberate mass starvation of Ukraine in the 1930s by Joe Stalin. It is not just the numbers...who knows whether it was seven million or twenty million?...it is the degradation of a people, the confiscation of the last grains of wheat, the slaughtering of the last chickens and cow, then their contamination so they couldn't be eaten. It was bringing an entire people so low that the remnants had to offer up their dignity for the right to eat. The forced collectivization is still there. Things may be kinder now, but that fact...collective farming...has to disappear before Ukrainians can regain their lost dignity. When they are allowed to feed themselves again, without answering to a kolkhoz director's arbitrary rule, the last impediment to living a Ukrainian life will disappear. I haven't said that before here. I believe it with all my soul. There has been no meaningful reform in this regard. It should be the first thing.

[grandma]

All this time from 1921 to 90th was not only bad, this time kill a lot of potential of Ukrain.

[andrewblow]

Hi, John -
My recent travels in the Bukovina region have shown me that it appears to be 'every family for themselves'. The State gives virtually nothing and each family farms whatever they own and - if they can save enough for the winter : fine, but if not - they simply starve. I have not met anyone tied into the collective farming, but I have seen 'bartering' and continuous living without hard currency in the mountain villages. I believe your assessment re: Stalin is correct and Ukraine is still suffering from a lack of intellegencia and people who WANT to lead FOR THE GOOD OF THE MAJORITY and not just to make bucks for themselves. My regards to you.

[johnstruthers]

Maybe we should talk about the second worst period for Ukraine: Right now. As Andrew Blow reminds us, things are very, very tough on the entire Ukrainian population right now. There are some who are enjoying certain rewards that are the consequence of the fall of the USSR, but as a general statement, it's pretty tough to get by. Medical care is practically nonexistent, unless you have lots of money. The cost of most things worth buying carry western prices, which are absurdly not affordable to the average person. There is still the feeling that no one is in charge. Rules and regulations are made up on the spot.

Worse, there is the general feeling of hopelessness. Young people are committing suicide at an alarming rate. When buses, trolleys and so on break down, they are just used for parts. There are always fewer buses on the streets. Private buses cost too much for pensioners. And, like Yulia said, people treat one another horribly in too many situations. It's just an awful period right now in Ukraine.