This is your Ukrainian nationalism

[Petro_moskal]

╚Zhenshchin i detej desjatkami klali na zemlju i streljali im v zatylok╩

D-r V.Polishchuk iz Kanady stal izvesten v Ukraine posle vykhoda knigi ╚Gor▓kaja pravda: prestuplenija OUN-UPA (ispoved▓ ukrainca)╩ v seredine 1990-kh godov. Uslyshat▓ iz diaspory golos ne o geroizme ukrainskikh nacionalistov perioda Vtoroj mirovoj vojny, a ob ikh prestuplenijakh bylo neprivychno. Raskhodilos▓ ehto i s oficial▓noj liniej, poehtomu ╚Gor▓kaja pravda╩ rasprostranjalas▓ edva li ne samizdatovskim sposobom (cherez 5 let posle ╚sverzhenija sovetskogo totalitarizma╩).

Politolog, magistr prava i doktor gumanitarnykh nauk Viktor Polishchuk rodilsja v 1925 godu na Volyni. Ego otec byl repressirovan NKVD i vyslan v Severnyj Kazakhstan. S 1946 zhil v Pol▓she, gde poluchil diplom jurista. V 1981 ehmigriroval v Kanadu, zhivet v Toronto.

V ehkskljuzivnom interv▓ju Viktor Varfolomeevich delitsja s chitateljami From-UA svoim mneniem ob OUN-UPA i namerenijakh reabilitirovat▓ ehtu organizaciju v Ukraine.

From-UA: √ Vasha kniga ╚Gor▓kaja pravda╩ stala v svoe vremja sensaciej. Pochemu Vy reshili napisat▓ ehtu rabotu?

V. Polishchuk: √ Knigu ╚Gor▓kaja pravda: prestuplenija OUN-UPA╩ ja napisal iz-za konfrontacii moego gumanitarnogo, khristianskogo mirovozzrenija s mirovozzreniem ukrainskikh nacionalistov v Kanade, kuda ja ehmigriroval iz Pol▓shi v 1981 godu. Po pribytii v Toronto ja rabotal korrektorom v mel▓nikovskom izdatel▓stve ╚Novyj put▓╩, gde i stolknulsja s prosto zoologicheskoj nenavist▓ju ko vsemu pol▓skomu i russkomu. Ja, vospitannyj na pol▓skoj, russkoj, ukrainskoj, zapadnoevropejskoj klassike, s pervykh zhe kontaktov s ukrainskoj diasporoj ne mog primirit▓sja s takim mirovosprijatiem. No v skorom vremeni okazalos▓, chto nenavist▓ mel▓nikovcev k poljakam i russkim √ ehto mizer po sravneniju k nenavist▓ju k nim so storony banderovcev.

Ja vyros v ukrainskoj sem▓e, znaju volynskoe ukrainskoe selo, vo vremja vojny v Severnom Kazakhstane rabotal s ukraincami, zhil na Dnepropetrovshchine, znaju miroljubivuju psikhiku ukrainskogo naroda. Stolknuvshis▓ v Kanade s neslykhannoj nenavist▓ju k pol▓skoj i russkoj nacijam, ja s ehtim faktom nikak ne mog primirit▓sja i potomu reshil issledovat▓ pervoistochnik ehtogo nepostizhimogo togda mnoj fenomena.

Izdatel▓stvo, v kotorom ja rabotal, imelo biblioteku nacionalisticheskoj literatury, ja vospol▓zovalsja eju. Krome togo, v bibliotekakh Toronto ja obnaruzhil ogromnye fondy ukrainskoj politicheskoj literatury, iz kotoroj tozhe izvlek pol▓zu, ustanavlivaja fakty, kotorye stali osnovoj moikh novykh znanij ob ukrainskom nacionalizme. V ehtom prichina napisanija mnoj ╚Gor▓koj pravdy╩, kotoruju ja napisal na ukrainskim jazyke i perevel na pol▓skij, a so vremenem ona byla perevedena i na anglijskij.

From-UA: √ √ Kakova byla reakcija na Vashu rabotu?

V. Polishchuk: √ Pol▓skie chitateli vosprinjali knigu s ehntuziazmom, tak kak nakonec-to ukrainec iz Pol▓shi napisal o tom, chto u nikh bolelo i do sikh por bolit. Buduchi v 1994 godu v Ukraine v nadezhde izdat▓ tam knigu, ja pokazal rukopis▓ odnomu iz dejatelej kul▓tury v Dubno, gde ja rodilsja. On skazal otkrovenno: zdes▓ nikto ehtu knigu ne izdast. Vypustil ja ee v Toronto, a so vremenem ee pereizdalo doneckoe izdatel▓stvo tirazhom v 1.000 ehkzempljarov, knigu pjat▓ raz pereizdavali v Pol▓she. Znaju (poluchal pis▓ma iz Ukrainy), chto ehtu knigu ljudi perepisyvali na pechatnoj mashinke i chitali po ocheredi.

Ukrainojazychnuju ╚Gor▓kuju pravdu╩ na Zapade organizovanno bojkotirovali, o nej dazhe plokho nel▓zja vspominat▓ v ukrainskikh nacionalisticheskikh (drugikh na Zapade net) SMI.

From-UA: √ ╚Gor▓kaja pravda╩ ved▓ ne edinstvennaja vasha kniga ob OUN-UPA?

V. Polishchuk: √ V khode opytov ja natolknulsja na problemu ideologii ukrainskogo nacionalizma, doshel do ee pervoistochnika √ doktriny D. Doncova, kotoruju Organizacija ukrainskikh nacionalistov prinjala na svoe ideologicheskoe vooruzhenie. Na ehtom materiale ja napisal i zashchitil doktorskuju (po ukrainskim standartam kandidatskuju) dissertaciju v Vroclavskom universitete, v moej Alma Mater.

Poiski arkhivnykh materialov, v chastnosti v ukrainskikh arkhivakh, pobudili menja k rabote nad temoj politicheskikh osnov OUN, a so vremenem i prestuplenij formirovanij OUN Bandery, sledstviem chego byla rabota ╚Dokazatel▓stva prestuplenij OUN i UPA╩, stavshaja sugubo doktorskoj dissertaciej, ee ja zashchitil v Silezskom universitete.

Ja vybral 550 arkhivnykh dokumentov i opublikoval ikh v trekh tomakh na jazyke originala i v perevode na pol▓skij, sredi nikh est▓ edinstvennyj v mirovoj literature dokument, kotoryj udostoverjaet prinadlezhnost▓ OUN v mezhvoennyj period k fashistskomu internacionalu. Takim obrazom, krome publicisticheskikh rabot, ja obrabotal i izdal 5-tomnuju seriju sugubo nauchnogo kharaktera ╚Ukrainskij integral▓nyj nacionalizm kak raznovidnost▓ fashizma╩. Nado pri ehtom skazat▓, chto ╚nacionalizm╩, kak i ╚socializm╩, imeet raznye lica. Tot, o kotorom ja govorju v svoikh rabotakh, ehto nacionalizm fashistskogo tipa.

Tema, kotoroj ja zanjalsja, ves▓ma shiroka, ves▓ma slozhna, iz politicheskikh soobrazhenij perepolnena lozh▓ju, poehtomu v 2004 godu ja napisal na pol▓skom jazyke knigu ╚Gor▓kaja pravda: ten▓ Bandery nad prestupleniem narodoubijstva╩. Napisal ja ee na pol▓skom jazyke potomu, chto uchastie pol▓skikh istorikov v producirovanii lzhi vokrug ╚volynskoj tragedii╩ ochen▓ vesoma. Itak, na segodnjashnij den▓ est▓ dve moikh knigi o gor▓koj pravde, ehta pravda svoditsja k analizu prichin i sledstvij narodoubijstva pol▓skogo i ukrainskogo naselenija, kotoroe chinili formirovanija OUN Bandery, a ne ukrainskij narod.

From-UA: √ Ogromnoe bol▓shinstvo ukrainskikh uchenykh iz diaspory priderzhivajutsja mysli, chto OUN-UPA √ ehto geroicheskaja stranica istorii Ukrainy. Pochemu ehto tak, po Vashemu mneniju, i pochemu Vy schitaete naoborot?

V. Polishchuk: √ Kakie ukrainskie uchenye okazalis▓ posle vojny na Zapade? Mezhdu nimi ne bylo ljudej nauki v polnom ponimanii ehtogo slova, ehto, prezhde vsego, byli ljudi ideologicheski i politicheski aktivnye, s opredelennym mirovozzreniem. Ehto byli i est▓ apologety ukrainskogo nacionalizma. Dejatel▓nost▓ ukrainskikh nacionalisticheskikh istorikov na Zapade byla i ostaetsja napravlennoj iskljuchitel▓no na zashchitu nacionalisticheskikh formirovanij, a ne na ob`ektivnoe izuchenie ikh suti.

Stoit otmetit▓, chto moi raboty ne otvazhilsja podvergnut▓ nauchnoj kritike ni odin ukrainskij nacionalisticheskij istorik, ni odin iz nikh ne postavil mne v uprek oshibochnost▓ otnositel▓no faktov ili vyvodov.

Pri ehtom sleduet ukazat▓ na fakt privlechenija Soedinennymi Shtatami Ameriki ukrainskikh nacionalisticheskikh psevdoistorikov (i ne tol▓ko ikh) k vypolneniju svoikh politicheskikh celej. Chast▓ banderovskikh dejatelej sozdala gruppirovku napodobie partii pod nazvaniem ╚OUN za granicej╩, kotoraja ne imela i do sikh por ne imeet seti chlenstva, odni lish▓ dejateli, odnim iz glavnykh iz kotorykh byl Mykola Lebed▓, a v poslednee vremja ╚provodnikom╩ OUN(z) javljaetsja Anatol▓ Kaminskij, blizkij k sem▓e V. Jushchenko chelovek.

Vot takie ljudi, pri finansovoj pomoshchi pravitel▓stv SShA i Kanady, sozdali na Zapade psevdonauchnye jachejki, takie, kak Ukrainskie studii pri Garvardskom universitete ili pri Ehdmontonskom universitete v Kanade. Sleduet pri ehtom vspomnit▓ eshche i vzjatyj pod kontrol▓ banderovcami t.n. Ukrainskij svobodnyj universitet v Mjunkhene, v kotorom stepen▓ magistra mozhno poluchit▓ na protjazhenii odnogo semestra, a stepen▓ doktora nauk √ dvukh semestrov.

Mozhno li pri takikh uslovijakh ozhidat▓ ot zapadnykh ukrainskikh istorikov ob`ektivnykh, nauchnykh issledovanij suti OUN-UPA? Razve ehti istoriki vspomnili kogda-nibud▓ o tom, chto UPA ne byla dobrovol▓nym formirovaniem, chto ee sostav na maj 1943 goda byl na 50% sformirovan putem nasil▓stvennoj ╚mobilizacii╩, a v konce togo zhe goda ╚mobilizovannykh╩ v UPA bylo ne menee 90%? Ob ehtom, krome menja, do sikh por nikto ne vspomnil, i ehto ne sluchajno, poskol▓ku sozdannuju putem terrora UPA nel▓zja kvalificirovat▓ kak narodno-osvoboditel▓noe formirovanie.

Ukrainskie nacionalisticheskie istoriki na Zapade opravdyvajut vsju sut▓ ukrainskogo nacionalizma, vmeste s tem ja, iz nizhe privedennykh soobrazhenij, ukazyvaju na prestupnost▓ ukrainskogo nacionalisticheskogo dvizhenija.

From-UA: √ V chem zhe sut▓ Vashej pozicii √ pochemu OUN-UPA kak javlenie dolzhno byt▓ osuzhdeno?

V. Polishchuk: √ Ehtu problemu nel▓zja svodit▓ k ponjatiju ╚OUN-UPA╩. Nazvannoe formirovanie √ rezul▓tat dejatel▓nosti ukrainskogo nacionalizma v ego organizacionnoj forme pod nazvaniem Organizacija ukrainskikh nacionalistov. V ponjatie ukrainskogo integral▓nogo nacionalizma vkhodjat tri sostavljajushchie: 1) ideologija ukrainskogo nacionalizma; 2) politicheskie osnovy ukrainskogo nacionalisticheskogo dvizhenija; 3) dejatel▓nost▓ formirovanij OUN.

Ideologija ukrainskogo nacionalizma, bazirujushchajasja na doktrine D. Doncova, iskhodit teorii social▓nogo darvinizma, po kotoromu ╚nacija sostavljaet vid v prirode╩ i nacija, v tom chisle i ukrainskaja, vedet postojannuju bor▓bu (vojny) s drugimi nacijami za prostranstvo i vyzhivanie. V ehtoj bor▓be ne sleduet rukovodstvovat▓sja moral▓nymi, khristianskimi ili obshchechelovecheskimi principami, khorosho vse to, chto khorosho dlja nacii, a chto khorosho dlja nacii - reshaet ╚vozhd▓ nacii╩, imejushchij v svoem rasporjazhenii aktiv, kotoryj Doncov nazyvaet ╚iniciativnym men▓shinstvom╩, ╚ehlitoj nacii╩. I ehta ╚ehlita╩ po otnosheniju k ostal▓nomu ukrainskomu narodu, nazyvaemomu Doncovym ╚plebsom╩, ╚neobuzdannym bydlom╩, primenjaet ╚tvorcheskoe nasilie╩.

Posle raskola v OUN, po mneniju mel▓nikovcev, ╚vozhdem nacii╩ dolzhen byl byt▓ Andrej Mel▓nik, po mneniju banderovcev, kotorye imeli v svoem rasporjazhenii skol▓ko-to tysjach chlenov OUN - Stepan Bandera. Oni i primenjali ╚tvorcheskoe nasilie╩ v otnoshenii k inorodcev i ostal▓nogo ukrainskogo naroda, to est▓ ukrainskogo ╚neobuzdannogo bydla╩. Soglasno ehtoj doktrine, dolzhen byl gospodstvovat▓ princip ╚Kto ne s nami - tot protiv nas!╩. Ehto i byli dvizhushchie sily ukrainskogo nacionalizma. Ehta ideologija ukrainskogo nacionalizma √ ne chto inoe, kak fashizm.

Cel▓ju ukrainskogo nacionalisticheskogo dvizhenija est▓ sozdanie fashistskogo tipa Ukrainskogo Sobornogo Samostojatel▓nogo Gosudarstva (USSD), kotoroe po territorii zanimalo by 1 200 000 kvadratnykh kilometrov √ ot Krakova v Pol▓she do beregov Kaspijskogo morja, po sosedstvu s Chechnej. Takoe gosudarstvo ukrainskomu narodu ne nuzhno, no plany OUN predusmatrivajut zanjat▓ mesto Rossii v Vostochnoj Evrope, sozdat▓ ukrainskuju imperiju.

Sleduet obratit▓ vnimanie, chto ni odna frakcija OUN do sikh por ne otstupila ni ot doktriny D. Doncova, ni ot opredelennoj OUN v 1929 godu celi ukrainskogo nacionalisticheskogo dvizhenija.

Pro tret▓ju sostavljajushchuju ponjatija ukrainskogo nacionalizma skazhu korotko: ego vooruzhennye formirovanija prinjali uchastie v napadenii gitlerovskoj Germanii na Pol▓shu v sentjabre 1939 goda, v agressii Germanii na Sovetskij Sojuz v ijune 1941 goda. V 1943 - 1944 godakh zverskimi metodami banderovcy istrebili, po men▓shej mere, 120 000 pol▓skogo bezzashchitnogo naselenija Volyni i Galicii, prichem ehto ne byli spontannye ili situativnye dejstvija, ehto bylo planovoe, doktrinal▓noe, organizovannoe OUN Bandery massovoe ubijstvo pol▓skogo naselenija.

From-UA: √ Esli mozhno, ob ehtom chut▓ podrobnej┘

V. Polishchuk: √ Pol▓skoe naselenie ubivali pogolovno. Est▓ pokazanija chudom ucelevshego poljaka Aleksandra Praduna i predvoditelja OUN Bandery Jurija Stel▓mashchuka, psevdonim ╚Rudyj╩, kotorye tozhdestvenny v detaljakh. V sootvetstvii s nimi banderovcy pol▓skoe naselenie sgonjali v odno mesto, zhenshchin i detej desjatkami klali licom na zemlju i streljali im v zatylok, a drugie, gljadja na rasstrely, zhdali svoej smerti. Muzhchin po odnomu brali i toporami razbivali im golovy. V 1941 - 1950 godakh, tozhe varvarskimi metodami, banderovcy istrebili, po men▓shej mere, 80 000 ukrainskogo grazhdanskogo naselenija.

Segodnja, pered licom neoproverzhimykh dokazatel▓stv massovogo istreblenija pol▓skogo naselenija Volyni i Galicii rukami OUN-UPA, zashchitniki ehtogo formirovanija, kotorye, kak ni udivitel▓no, poluchajut pomoshch▓ so storony pol▓skikh istorikov, starajutsja opravdat▓ rukovodstvo OUN Bandery tem, chto, mol, ne ono vinovato v ehtom narodoubijstve. Ego, mol, sovershilo mestnoe ukrainskoe naselenie, kotoroe rukovodstvo OUN Bandery bylo ne v sostojanii sderzhat▓ ot ehtikh prestuplenij. Podumat▓ tol▓ko √ za splanirovannoe i organizovannoe prestuplenie apologety OUN Bandery perenosjat vinu na narod, na prostykh krest▓jan Volyni i Galicii. Ehto √ ocherednoe prestuplenie protiv naroda!

V ehtom i otvet, pochemu, po moemu mneniju, OUN-UPA dolzhna byt▓ osuzhdena, i ne tol▓ko ona, a i vse ukrainskoe nacionalisticheskoe dvizhenie dostojno osuzhdenija.

Prodolzhenie sleduet
V prodolzhenii chitajte o tom, pochemu administracija V. Jushchenko khochet reabilitirovat▓ OUN-UPA

[ http://www.from-ua.com/politics/42709bee93386/ ]

[MiguelMichael]

yep,i've read this article before.Victor Polishchuk is right,however he's ignored both in Poland and Ukraine.here in Poland voices warning against ukrainian nationalism are automatically fought off and classified pro-russian and procommunist.unfortunately polish history in school manuals about polish-ukrainian relations is a bunch of lies-genocide on polish civilians(mainly old,women,children) is called antipolish UPA action or polish-ukrainian war,amount of victims is strongly lowered or includes only 60,000 slaughtered in Volyn,without notes about Galizia and region of modern eastern parts of Poland.Genocide on Poles is being commonly excused by polish historians by ,,opression'' of Ukrainians by authorities before WWII and so on..
TV reports during orange revolution nver mentioned nationalist and antipolish elements active in Our Ukraine.once i even saw an old lady who claimed ukrainian nationalism is just an ordinary patriotism.
Polish media alarm of each new Stalin's statue raised in Siberia and never say of statues memorizing ukrainian criminals like Bandera and Shukhevych built in Galizia.It is perhaps lack of true historic heroes that western Ukranians believe in nationalist myths about OUN and UPA-UPA certainly fought against Red Army but it's not the sufficient reason to consider UPA bandits heroes.it also killed lots of Ukrainians(now ukrainian nationalists consider them AK victims).In liberal west there is a tendency to condemn and criticize any forms of nationalism and former nationalist movements and leaders(Franco in Spain,Pinochet,Mussolini,National Democracy in Poland).I don't know how it's gonna be with Ukraine but considering that the world hasn't ever heard of ukranian nationalism this process might avoid Ukraine.

[Zbyszek]

Znaju (poluchal pis▓ma iz Ukrainy), chto ehtu knigu ljudi perepisyvali na pechatnoj mashinke i chitali po ocheredi.



Petro, the interview with Dr Polishchuk you quoted was interesting but I had better chance of listening to his words personally when he arrived in Warsaw, in Porczynski Gallery, on the occasion of 60 anniversary of the genocide that passed down to history as Volyn Red Nights. The occasional symposium included contribution of Wiktor Polishchuk whose scientific erudtion on the subject is really impressive.
He absolutely earned my respect. In his opinion, Ukrainians should renounce their past blind, Bandera type nationalism forever because it proved destructive both spiritually and politically. I remember that Polishchuk kept pointing out that relatively insignificant, aggressive minority of terror sower deplorably succeded to terrorize majority of honest Ukrainians. "Thou shalt kill or be killed" - such was their speech and these were not empty words!
Moreover, Polishchuk announced further research on the shocking role of the Greek Catholic church priests in inciting to violence.

[Petro_moskal]

In my opinion, Ukrainian nationalism is criminal and needs to be condemned internationally just as Nazism and Stalinism have been.

[dobko]

Originally posted by Petro_moskal
In my opinion, Ukrainian nationalism is criminal and needs to be condemned internationally just as Nazism and Stalinism have been.

So should Russian nationalism! And Polish nationalism, American nationalism, Canadian nationalism.... hell let's ban all nationalism! Aren't Bolsheviks just Russian nationalists? Bolsheviks seized power during the Russian Revolution of 1917, they changed their name to the All-Russian Communist Party (Bolsheviks) in 1918 and were generally known as the Communist Party after that point. However, it was not until 1952 that the party formally dropped the word Bolshevik from its name.

You judge Ukrainian nationalists for the actions of a small group and turn a blind eye to the Russian nationalists? Why do you have double standards?

[Petro_moskal]

dobko

You judge Ukrainian nationalists for the actions of a small group and turn a blind eye to the Russian nationalists? Why do you have double standards?

It wasn't a small group, it was a whole army. Ukrainian nationalists to this day glorify the UPA. Why are they supported in the media and present in force on this forum, while Nazis are hounded and condemned?
Polish nationalists and French nationalists never commited such crimes. As for the Russians, Kolchak has been denounced many times and no large groups try to rehabilitate him like they do the UPA.

Aren't Bolsheviks just Russian nationalists? Bolsheviks seized power during the Russian Revolution of 1917, they changed their name to the All-Russian Communist Party (Bolsheviks) in 1918 and were generally known as the Communist Party after that point.

You really need to read some Russian history, Dobko. After all, Russia is closely linked with Ukraine and they were one country for over 600 years of their histories.
The Bolsheviks were most certainly not Russian nationalists - the title "all-Russian" refers to the country they were located in. Communism and nationalism are mortal enemies - communism entails the union of members of one social class across national boundaries while nationalism preaches the union of members of one ethnic group across class boundaries.
Most of the Bolsheviks were Jews. Dzerzhinskij was a Pole and the original Red Army's backbone consisted of 40,000 Latvians. All of these groups fear and hate Russian nationalism.

[Kathy]

Galicia was never a part of Russia. And Dzerzhinsky was a Polish Jew.

Most of the Bolsheviks were Jews.

Untrue. Lenin wasn't a Jew. Neither was Stalin. Zhdanov, Bubnov, Sokolnikov, Molotov, Kirov and Bukharin were all Russian.

The "father" of the Russian Social Democratic Party, from which both the Bolsheviks and the Mensheviks evolved, was a Russian.