This is your Ukrainian nationalism

[Petro_moskal]

Kathy

As for Galicia, it is part of Ukraine, and much of its population spoke what evolved into Ukrainian. So the point was, your post was inaccurate.

I was referring to what was the Ukraine within the Russian Empire. When I speak of Russia in those days I naturally don't refer to the Kaliningrad Oblast' as well, right?

As for Jews in the Bolshevik Party, I corrected myself. They were, however, overrepresented in the Bolshevik Party and early VKP(b) just as they were in the ChK and NKVD. Of the original Politbjuro members only Bukharin and Kalinin were Russian - Trockij (Bronshtejn), Zinoviev (Radomysl'skij), and Kamenev (Rosenfeld) were Jews; Krestinskij (Krestins'kyj) was Ukrainian, and Stalin (Dzhugashvili) was Georgian. Lenin (Uljanov) was of mixed ancestry, as you have pointed out.
Let's not be agressive, shall we? The point is that the Bolsheviks weren't Russian nationalists, contrary to what dobko has alleged.

[MiguelMichael]

Originally posted by dobko

So should Russian nationalism! And Polish nationalism, American nationalism, Canadian nationalism.... hell let's ban all nationalism! Aren't Bolsheviks just Russian nationalists? Bolsheviks seized power during the Russian Revolution of 1917, they changed their name to the All-Russian Communist Party (Bolsheviks) in 1918 and were generally known as the Communist Party after that point. However, it was not until 1952 that the party formally dropped the word Bolshevik from its name.

You judge Ukrainian nationalists for the actions of a small group and turn a blind eye to the Russian nationalists? Why do you have double standards? [/B]

The problem is that Ukrainian Dontsov/Bandera/Melnyk type nationalism was a criminal ideology based on Nazism and Italian Fascism totalitarian patterns.
Germans condemned Nazism,so did Italians with Fascism.Ukrainians should condemn Bandera,Melnyk,Sawur,Shukhevych as well,stop giving streets their names and delegalize organizations which refer to their traditions like KUN and UNA-UNSO.

[Petro_moskal]

Kathy

The first Politburo's members were Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Kamenev and Krestinsky.

Bukharin, Zinoviev and Kalinin were candidate members, however. Note how all the Russians weren't even full members.

[Petro_moskal]

Kathy

Zinoviev was Jewish.

I'd already said that earlier. I was talking about Kalinin and Bukharin.

[Redcoat]

Just thought I'd say that the Bolsheviks weren't nationalists, rather anti-nationalists. They condemned religion (a fundamental part of culture), demonized all previous Czars (virtually all previous recorded Russian history was under their rule, thus a crucial role in all possible nationalism.). The Bolsheviks renamed the country to the Soviet Union, thus it was not even Russia anymore, only the power was placed in what was once Russia.

Nazism as well was only a facade in many of it's official 'philosophies'. In reality, they did not hate communism or socialism. They wanted to create a European Confederacy under a strict socialist-fascist dictatorship. All would be equal, but the means in which all would be equal would be by all being completely subordinate to the ruling party. It was through skillful manipulation and propaganda that the Nazis managed to deceive unknowing Germans into believing that they were strongly nationalist. Hitler didn't use the term 'German people' near as many times as the 'aryan race', as it was his firm belief that the enlightened aryan race, decendents from the perfect republic of Atlantis would rule not only Europe, but the world, creating what he called the 'New World Order'.

Anyway, Bolshevism and Nazism shouldn't be misinterpreted as nationalist ideals, rather than criminal acts. Believe it or not, but the West is following a very similar example. Look at the US, with their Patriot Acts (which dwarfs the power of Hitler and Stalin, in comparison with the US president.), the new EU constitution (good that it was denied in France and the Netherlands.), where a whole new step towards a European state would have been taken.

[Serhii]

The Bolsheviks renamed the country to the Soviet Union, thus it was not even Russia anymore, only the power was placed in what was once Russia.

They did rename the country , but all previous policy remained the same ( here I say ONLY about their police towards other nations ) It was the same ▒prison of nations ▒ as Lenin described tsarists Russia. We use here only one term ▒nationalism ▒. In old soviet tradition there was a strong division between ▒nationalism ▒ and ▒chauvinism. ▒The last one was described as ideology of a main ( dominate) nation. All soviet rulers strongly supported it. Of course they twisted history , etc. etc . , but chauvinistic policy was not only the same , but much tougher as you know┘

[Redcoat]

Agreed.
But nevertheless, I deffinitely consider the link between Bolshevism and Nationalism either very fine or nonexistant. However, people with a different way of looking at things may argue against this.