Why are Poles so bitter

[KillerArmy]

I asked this question before and many poiles said "because the Russians didn't apologise and the Germans did." Well white Americans haven't apologised for slavery or America hasnt apologised for making colonies of other countries or forcing their Politics (what they called democrasy) on many countries around the world over its history. Even today America pushes its foreign policy everywhere. Yet the Poles continue on ahting the Russians, and other Eastern neighbors. It's quite sad actually. I am not even shure but I actually heard Kruschev , Yeltsin and other Russian leaders did apologise for Stalinist crimes such as Katyn (which paled in comparison to german crimes) yet the Poles keep continueing their hatin.

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by KillerArmy
I asked this question before and many poiles said "because the Russians didn't apologise and the Germans did." Well white Americans haven't apologised for slavery or America hasnt apologised for making colonies of other countries or forcing their Politics (what they called democrasy) on many countries around the world over its history. Even today America pushes its foreign policy everywhere. Yet the Poles continue on ahting the Russians, and other Eastern neighbors. It's quite sad actually. I am not even shure but I actually heard Kruschev , Yeltsin and other Russian leaders did apologise for Stalinist crimes such as Katyn (which paled in comparison to german crimes) yet the Poles keep continueing their hatin.

I will try to make my comment short:

1. Russians do not need to apologise more. Memory of the Soviet world is just too fresh to forget so easily.
2. America used to be aggressive but it has been a distant past.
3. Poland is stil strongly pro-American. I think it makes Poland look more anti-Russian now.
4. No need to hate Russians, really. Good people, similar Slavic qualities.
5. Yeltsin apologized in fact.
6. Sure, German crimes were monstrous. I think some Polish media are too much politically motivated. On the other hand Poland enjoys blessed diversity of opinion and Polish reader has enough material to have a balanced perspective.

I have no doubt that, from historical perspective, German expansionism was far more dangerous for Poland than any Russian one, with one big Soviet exception. Killer, do not forget which communist country was most bold in actively resisting communism which only culminated in the Solidarity movement.
Maybe combatant syndrome could be a good answer to your question????

[KillerArmy]

2. America used to be aggressive but it has been a distant past.

I disagree with this statement.

[Ania778]

Killer, in reply to your post I think the word "hate" is not an accurate representation of the way Poles feel about Russians. If only our relationship were that simplistic. Many Poles are still living with the trauma of the Soviet years. They are traumatised rather than bitter. I have in fact heard that it is the other way around, that Russians hate Poles. There seems to be a lack of trust on both sides. It is a pity because we are all Slavs. All the suffering has been such a waste, and what was it all for?

[KillerArmy]

March, 16 1933
At the World conference on disarmament the British prime minister has offered to
allow to Germany to double the strength German Army and to reduce the strength
of the French army.

1933
Refusal of Poland to take part in offered by the USSR " East pact ". Poland and
Germany have offered the USSR to conclude such pact without France and
Czechoslovakia but on such conditions USSR has refused.

January 1934
The nonaggression pact between Germany and Poland.

May, 2 1935
The Soviet-French political treaty about mutual aid. However in June 1936
L.Blume's government came to authority in France which was against signing the
military treaty with the USSR has come, and it was not made.

June, 18 - 1935
England signed with Germany the sea agreement allowing Germany to have the
military fleet.

March, 7 1936
German Army came to the Rhine area. Poland has supported this step. France has
declared, that has no more obligations to Warsaw. England has taken a neutral
position. Later Poland also has supported invasion of Austria.

November, 19 1937
Lord Halifax while visiting Hitler in Oberzaltzberg offers agreement of 4 powers
without the USSR; he told that " and other members of the English government are
full of consciousness, that fuhrer has achieved a lot not only in the Germany,
but as a result of destruction of communism in the country he has blocked a way
of communism to the Western Europe and consequently Germany can be considered as
a bastion of the West against Bolshevism ".

The end of April 1938
Halifax has declared to German representative Kordt that the Great Britain will
not undertake additional military obligations to France, not speaking about
Czechoslovakia.

May, 18 1938
The president of Czechoslovakia Benes has told the English ambassador: " if the
Western Europe will lose interest to Russia, Czechoslovakia will lose it too ".

September, 20 1938
The Soviet government has answered Benes that will assist Czechoslovakia if
France too will assist; refusal of Poland to pass the Soviet armies even at the
request of France. In Poland at that time they speak: " with Germany we can lose
independence, and with Russia - our soul ".

September, 21 1938
At 2 o'clock in the morning the Anglo-French ultimatum to the government of
Czechoslovakia about acceptance of the German requirements issued. After signing
the Munich agreements the president of USA has sent congratulation Chamberlan.

October, 2 1938
The Polish armies occupied the Czech Tesin and adjoining territory . Thus,
Poland together with hitlerite Germany participated in occupation and a
partition of Czechoslovakia and input of the Soviet armies to Poland was not
unique and not the first similar action of that time.

November 1938
Armies of Hungary have occupied a part of Slovakia and belonging to Slovakia
Zakarpatye Ukraine (Slovakia that time was halfindependent country after a
partition of Czechoslovakia).

November 1938
The ambassador of USA in Paris: "it would be desirable for the democratic
countries that there, in the East, business has reached the sanction of
questions at issue by war between Germany and Russia ? In England, and USA hotly
trust France, that the nearest months the great sanction of questions in the
east " will begin.

March, 9 1939
The British ambassador in Berlin Genderson: " it seems inevitable to me , that
Germany wants tear off this rich country (Ukraine) from the huge Russian state.
we can not to give Germany of cardblanche in the East blindly. But achievement
of the agreement with Hitler is not impossible, assuming that it will be limited
to reasonable conditions which observance is possible to expect from Hitler".

March, 10 1939
Stalin's application that the main warmongers are England and France, instead of
Germany.

March, 27 1939
The British Minister for Foreign Affairs Halifax to the ambassador in Warsaw
Kennard: " it should be clear that all our attempts to consolidate position are
destroyed, if the Soviet government openly will take part in this plan ".
(concerning the offer of the USSR to call conference on discussion of the help
of Romania).

April, 14 1939
The British government has offered Soviet Union to give unilateral obligations
to neighbouring countries. Obligations to the USSR was not provided.

April, 17 1939
The answer of the Soviet government about desirability of the conclusion
tripartite (the USSR, England, France) agreements.

May, 3 1939
Minister for Foreign Affairs Litvinov with pro-Western orientation is removed
and replaced with Molotov.

May, 8 1939
The answer of the governments of England and France with a rejection to the
Soviet offer and recurrence of their memorandum from April, 14.

May, 28 September, 15 1939
The Ъмаепъим-Japanese conflict on the river the Halhin-Gol. In same time England
concludes the contract with the Japanese government.

June 1939
Confidential negotiations of the Great Britain with Germany on sections of
spheres of influence. Russia and China were offered to Germany.

June, 12 1939
The offer to Halifax to arrive to Moscow. Halifax refused.

August, 11 1939
The English delegation of minor figures arrives to Moscow. It is typical, that
they have gone to Moscow by steamship, instead of usual at that time plane. In
Moscow it is found out, that the English delegation has no official powers on
negotiating. The English and French military missions have offered to discuss
the general(common) principles without consideration of real military plans.

August, 19 1939
The conclusion in Berlin of the trading - credit agreement between the USSR and
Germany.

August, 23 1939
The conclusion of the notorious Soviet-German pact in Moscow.

[Petro_moskal]

Poland as a nation is analogous to a jackal that whines about being mistreated but promply pounces on weaker neighbors when the opportunity presents itself.

Most of the crimes pinned on the USSR by Poland are groundless - Katyn was the work of the Germans, and the Warsaw Rising was their business. The Soviet Army didn't need to ditch its strategy to help an insurgence that would hurt the USSR more than help it.

[mishaaverko]

Based on all that has been presented, I accept that the Soviets executed those Polish officers at Katyn.

Stalin earlier had executed a good portion of the Red Army officer corps.

Stalin's policies were more political and less bigoted.

A nice exchange with a Polish nationalist at this link:

http://talk.guardian.co.uk/WebX?14@3....77473289/6465