What nationality suffered the most from Nazi's after the Jews?

[happy_gunner]

Whatcha gonna do? Chain yourself to some railings? Form the Cowardly Polish Cry-babies' Revolutionary Army? Storm the Ukrainian Embassy with your vegetarian-&-gay-rights friends?

Or blubber about nasty, brutal, scary Ukes and Anglos from the safety of Sweden?

Katowice 1997 ha ha haaaaaa

[KillerArmy]

Had any of you bothered to look at Hussar's comments and look at his sources, you would see that his logic is flawed, his standards are inconsistent (he absolves Mao Tse Tung of responsibility for 30 million deaths from famine that resulted from the "Great Leap Forward", but holds Stalin to account for deaths by famine during the NEP and Collectivisation, as well as from epidemic (Spanish Flu) and consequent "non-births". You can't have it both ways), and his sources range from the reliable to fatuous. (Fatuous is a word that is not etymologically related to "flatulence", the passing of gas through the 0anal orifice, but has much the same meaning.).

The Dummkopf who put the information on the web *** be well meaning, although I doubt it, but he is certainly no historian. If you have read previous threads concerning population losses in the USSR before 1956 you will appreciate that there are some very challenging difficulties facing researchers because of the sparse and unreliable Soviet demographic data. One cannot rely on western sources, which are usually politically based and do not benefit from access to source data. Krivosheev and Maksudov have had access to Soviet documents, and their conclusions differ greatly from those of the CIA, and most westerns writers (I will not call them "scholars").

Just because you saw it on the Internet, do not for a minute believe that gives the information credibility. Any fool with a basic knowledge of HTML can put up a website. One can find a wide variety of sites where racism, political extremism, biased "history", and child pornography are the central themes. They are there, because the Internet cannot be policed, and it behooves the intelligent browser to scrape their shoes when they encounter such a site, and not return.

[dobko]

Come on Prawda, enough with the names.

[Crnogorac]

My country Montenegro lost about 52000 (16%) of 330000 habitants.Most of them 35000 have been killed in the war between komunists and chetniks and 17000 against Germans and Italians.
During the Balkan wars 1912-1913 ,first WW 1914-1918 and White terror(war against Serbian troops which occupied Montenegro) 1918-1925 and Spanish flue 1919-20 Montenegro has lost about 30% of habitants.
As we say on our language "Prvo Skadar(1912) i Bregalnica(1913),onda Svabo(1914-1918) i Spanjolica i na kraju bratska okupacija.

[Serb]

Serbia never occupied Montenegro. The kingdom of Montenegro declared union with the Kingdom of Serbia. You must be of the Djukanovic school, sad really!

As for the question to which people suffered due to nazi killings. If we take into acount that Croatia was Hitlers ally in WWII and that it had the most nutorious death camp which processed 1.200.000 mostly Serbs, along with Jews and Gypsies than the Serbs got it pretty bad. The Croatians claim this number is an exaguration and that no more than 30.000 where killed. In the camp of Jasenovac it's prisoners where not systimatically killed, but butchered. The 'Independant State of Croatia" proclaimed that a "Third of the Serb population be converted to Catholicism, a third exilled and a third likvidated."

For those interested in some photos and evidence of such crimes here are some links.

http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/gallery.html

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Ustashi

The Usta a gangs ravaged villages across the Dinaric Alps to the extent that the Italians and the Germans started expressing their horror. By 1942, general Edmund Glaise von Horstenau had written several reports to his Wehrmacht commanders in which he expressed his dismay at the extent of the Usta a atrocities, which actually preceded the Final Solution. These were corroborated by those of field marshal Wilhelm List.

According to the Simon Wiesenthal Center: "Ustasa terrorists killed 500,000 Serbs, expelled 250,000 and forced 250,000 to convert to Catholicism. They murdered thousands of Jews and Gypsies."



Of course croatians deny this or simply state that we deserved it.

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by Serb
...
According to the Simon Wiesenthal Center: "Ustasa terrorists killed 500,000 Serbs, expelled 250,000 and forced 250,000 to convert to Catholicism. They murdered thousands of Jews and Gypsies."
Of course croatians deny this or simply state that we deserved it.

Serb, I am really terified with the numbers you presented. It was surely a terrible, stigmatizing trauma for the Serbian nation.
Can you give me the number of the total Serb population before and after WWII? I am also interested in how many Croatian oppressors were directly involved in the killings/butchery. Did it take place predominantly in the camps? Were other forms of the ethnic cleansing in use? How can Crotians ever justify is such a horrible killing spree? Was the religious difference the most important factor? Did the Germans try to control the situation to some degree?

[Serb]

The Germans where horrified but did little to stop the Ustashi. The Italians on the other hand who had occupied the Dalmation coastline did help Serbian guerillas under the leadership of the Chetnik commander Momcilo Djujic. (Chetniks where pro monachirsts loyal to the underage king who had fled to England). They provided the Serbian resistence movement with weapons and ammunition. Because of this they where accussed by the Communist party of Yugoslavia as collaborating with the occupators.

Religion played a major role because the catholic church viewed that the 'schysmatics' shouldn't be allowed to cross the Drina river that divides Bosnia and Serbia. Croatian hatred had grown because most Croatians viewed their Serbian neighbours as a lower people having been ruled by the backward Turks for 5 centuries while they had been under the 'European' Austro-Hungarian Empire. The father of the anti-serbian movement was Ante Starcevic. His program was put to use by Ante Pavelic and his Ustaha regime.

After Yugoslavia was freed from Nazi occupation most of the Ustashi goverment fled to Italy where they where helped by the Vatican to escape to South America using money and gold they had taken from the Serbian people before they where butchered.

During Tito's Yugoslavia Serbs where banned from mentioning Croatian crimes as this could lead to the rising of inter ethnic tension. When Yugoslavia started falling apart in 1991 the Serbs who lived in Croatia and Bosnia feared that the same thing could happen as did in WWII and hence the civil war began.