To the Poles

[Yakoo]

Some of you are woefully unfamiliar with the Ukrainian history. Gee, "largest collaboration", when Germans managed to form a whole division out of Ukrainians? While how many German division were at least half Polish? USSR alone captured over 50,000 Poles in German uniform. Considering that USSR took POW about 12% of total German manpower, the number of ethnic Poles in the German army can be estimated at 450,000. Almost half the size Poland managed to field in 1939. Looks like Poles were as willing to fight for Germany as for themselves. Sorry.

As to Polish underground -- is that a joke? Soviet or Yugoslav partisans were one thing. What did the Poles ever do except murder Jews?

Few Ukrainians collaborated with Germans -- an paid for it. Poles even served in the German army and fully participated in all of its atrocities. Do you know, for example, that Soviet recon troops sometimes spoke both German and Polish so that they could pass for either Germans or Poles when they encountered the enemy, and thus be mistaken for their own?

I'm not even going to mention the Polish participation in Holocaust, or murders of escaping Soviet POWs by Poles.

[Yakoo]

In case you are wondering where I got my figuare of Polish coolaborators See GUPVI docs on the national makeup of POW population.There is a huge book with them, edited by Zagorulko, titled something like "Voennoplennye v SSSR, 1939-1956" (from memory).

There were 50,000 POWs who said they were Poles rather than Germans. You can also check "Stalingradskaia epopeia", which contains several POW interrogation records. I think two of the German POWs were Poles, and mentioned that their respective units were also manned by Poles

I Might also add:
1. USSR had no affect on the start of WW2 since Germany and Poland mobilized prior to the Soviet-German Non-Aggression Agreement. Poland certainly had a greater effect in supporting Germany during the Czechoslovak crisis in 1938. Of all the players involved in the outbreak of hostilities (Germany, Poland, Britain, France, USSR), Soviet responsibility is the smallest. And finally, German territorial losses were compensation not for the war itself (in which case it would in fact be "booty"), but for the way it was conducted.

2. Russia did have power and did fight neighbors... Poland sometimes had power and did fight neighbors... <insert country here> had power and fought neighbors... What does that prove? Nothing. What was the reason for Soviet interventions in Hungary and Czechoslovakia? Security, the Soviet need to maintain a barrier on the border with hostile NATO powers. What was the reason for Polish attack on Russia, Ukraine, and Lithuania in 1919, and discussions with Germans of another attack on USSR in 1939? Simple greed, the desire to reestablish the former Polish empire. Who would you trust more? I'd trust Russia.

[Yakoo]

ure taking all this offence what armys are known for fukin up history in ww2?

-Please speak in a coherent manner. I do not understand this semi-literate gibberish.

.which country invented gulags? who founded communism?

-England Invented Gulags as such as far as I know. Look up Anglo-Boer war. Karl Marx invented Communism as far as I know. Mr. Marx was a German Jew.

thats germany and russia with their imperial perverted ambitions split Poland in 1795 and again in 1939. and about Poles in german army well kid yahooo u know there was about 700.000 poles or assimilated poles living in Ruhr western germany since 1800 century cause many poles worked in the mines..most off these fougth in german army cause they become assimilated with polish surnames also as u know there was eastern germany that was prussia and some there was recruted or killed my grandfather lived in Prussia/Poznan cause there was many poles there since it was polish region previous 1795...but he was sent to german work camp even tho his father was actualy german so no help, u see im talkng of experience u is not ure just in yankeville suburb...and jews how u save them? thesre where many that risked their lives but ussr not help they split poland with germany n say ok to killing jews..good work russia...

-you are speaking incoherently again, what is your problem? Poland got what it had coming to it. Look up "Smutnoye Vremya" if you want to go into remembering old wrongs. Ask a couple of Lithuanians about how they feel of the "unification" while you are at it.

yahoo, mishi etc ure people that obviously cut out last 200 years off russian history who occupied east europe for last 50 years? russia fuked up east europe with killings, polution n all sort of perverted s---t...whos agressor since 1795? germany killed many poles started koncentration camps...then after nazis came stupid rusky with communism,ure stupid people i can understand why chechens figth for russia to go away..poland would do same..

-It is clear that you are not as well versed in those "last two hundred years of history" as you imply. Read up. post again. Chechens fight to keep Russia in Chechnya. As soon as we go away, so does any opportunity to make a livelyhood in Chechnya.

ure leaders have same stupid perverted imperial rasist minds as ure teenage yankeville kids..russia have fuked up future like u narow minded people look at putin he is kgb stupid he looks like a retard...russia will dissolve by itself there is more dead than born it collapse u pay for past now..u have hundreds of diferent people u made them dependant on u...

-olish leaders are of course, white and furry. There are doomsday prophecies made about Russia all the time, strange thing is we are still here, while many of those prophets are not, or have had their empire/nation ground into dust.

.without siberia u have no minerals..it is not russia, russia is moscow...with this stupid attitude there will be more and more dead in russia trust me..

-You would be surprised at what Russia is. (here is a Hint the Place where Suvorov's grave is is Russian soil). Of course I could be trolling.

at least germany confess for stupid past, but russia play hero as if they free europe, russia plan was obvious first they ocupie poland since 1795 then again 1939 only russia attacked by germany stupid...only a change off occupier from nazis too commies...

-To the victor go the spoils. I dont see Poland apologising for all the **** it did, to the Russian Empire and the Moscovite Princedom before it.

[AtamanSapiecha]

Originally posted by Yakoo
Some of you are woefully unfamiliar with the Ukrainian history. Gee, "largest collaboration", when Germans managed to form a whole division out of Ukrainians? While how many German division were at least half Polish? USSR alone captured over 50,000 Poles in German uniform. Considering that USSR took POW about 12% of total German manpower, the number of ethnic Poles in the German army can be estimated at 450,000. Almost half the size Poland managed to field in 1939. Looks like Poles were as willing to fight for Germany as for themselves. Sorry.

As to Polish underground -- is that a joke? Soviet or Yugoslav partisans were one thing. What did the Poles ever do except murder Jews?

Few Ukrainians collaborated with Germans -- an paid for it. Poles even served in the German army and fully participated in all of its atrocities. Do you know, for example, that Soviet recon troops sometimes spoke both German and Polish so that they could pass for either Germans or Poles when they encountered the enemy, and thus be mistaken for their own?

I'm not even going to mention the Polish participation in Holocaust, or murders of escaping Soviet POWs by Poles.

Poland ,no Vlasov ,no Kaminski ,no Qusiling , maybe retard Wanda Wasilewska for Stalin but no for Hitler ,you ****kiing history retard.
Ivan

[Ogmioski]

As a statement of historic fact held in UK Ministry of Defence files: Some 90,000 Poles (Ninety thousand Poles)were ex-German Army and settled in Britain as a result of WW2. Afrika Korps prisoners (Poles), and others(including my father who was captured in the German Army as a conscripted Pole in 1944 - came to Britain to settle. In the late war years these 90,000 Poles from the German Army, who found it expedient to join the Polish Army (Polish 2nd Army in Scotland) - including my father, still alive as living proof in England. Several hundred Poles ex-Todt SS also seved in BAOR (British Army on the Rhine) post ww2 - also verifiable via British Army Records!

As a child I grew up with many veterans of WW2, many ex Ukrainian SS members and others.I grew up with their children who were 'demonised' for being the children of German Army veterans.

The correspondence about vast numbers of Poles being in the German army is true despite the convenience of believing otherwise by some of your correspondents. Regards M.Ogmioski

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by Ogmioski
As a statement of historic fact held in UK Ministry of Defence files: Some 90,000 Poles (Ninety thousand Poles)were ex-German Army and settled in Britain as a result of WW2. Afrika Korps prisoners (Poles), and others(including my father who was captured in the German Army as a conscripted Pole in 1944 - came to Britain to settle. In the late war years these 90,000 Poles from the German Army, who found it expedient to join the Polish Army (Polish 2nd Army in Scotland) - including my father, still alive as living proof in England. Several hundred Poles ex-Todt SS also seved in BAOR (British Army on the Rhine) post ww2 - also verifiable via British Army Records!

As a child I grew up with many veterans of WW2, many ex Ukrainian SS members and others.I grew up with their children who were 'demonised' for being the children of German Army veterans.

The correspondence about vast numbers of Poles being in the German army is true despite the convenience of believing otherwise by some of your correspondents. Regards M.Ogmioski

It is good to give numbers but it is even better to put a little more effort and explain why this situation took place. It is what lacked in all previous posts. Any first reader would cry: what treacherous Poles! They supported Hitler! The truth is much more complex. Silesia was the main source of Poles in the German army. This region has been a disputed area for centuries. The complex ethnic structure reflected trouble Polish-German history. The steady influx of the German settlers came Eastern direction and there was a time when there was a vast German minority in Cracow! (the times of Boleslav the Shy, XIIth cent.)
As a result, there were painful division even through Silesian families. It happened that two brothers served in two adverse armies.
Also, one has to remember that practically in all, even the Eastern regions of Poland, there were German settlers who ofetn displayed arrogant stand against the Polish state in the beginning of WWII (SO called Hitler's fifth column, like in Czechoslovakia).
It happened that some of people easily changed their skin and switched between Polish and German nationality easily, depending on actual circumstances.
It is still possible that when you ask someone in Silesia: who you are? he will answer: Ich bin ein Schleiser/Ja jestem Slazak!
I am sure that many soldiers quoted by Ogmioski preferred to declare Polish nationality in hope of being treated better by the British. In the beginning of WWII the same guys would claim that they are Germans.
So, it is a kind of personality split which is typical Silesian feature. Who is to be blamed? Just history.

I do not think serving in the "incorrect" army is a problem unless it is exploited as an easy convenience to bully the other nation. I have not heard of Poles bullying or murdering citizens of other nations under the Nazi flags.

Yakoo's first post is definitely offensive for the Poles, but it is not a big problem having the overall quality of his rants in mind. Who would believe that Poland, a nation which lost 3 millions of its best peoople (not to coulnt another 3 mln Polish Jews) ever supported Hitler in his atrocities? Let us leave Yakoo with his intimate inferiority feelings if they serve him well. Good night Yakoo and dream well about you Polish oppressors.


[Edited by Zbyszek on 24th May 2003 at 00:47]

[happy_gunner]

Yakoo the thread title is like an electronic scoreboard saying "I want to bash an entire nation with the stick of a tiny minority".
Why single out the Poles?
There were British in the SS, without the pressures that were hoisted on the Poles and Ukrainians, the American IBM enthusiastically and fanatically helped the nazis exterminate Jews, the SS were disgusted at the bestiality of the Croatian Utasha and you'd also need an effing big stadium to fit in Soviet collaborators.
De Valera in Ireland made sure he was the first to sign the condolence book when Hitler died and a significant percentage of the Vatican plus many eminent Muslims were so far up Hitler's arse you could only see their shoelaces so why be selective?