Polish city Lwow

[Bartosz]

Originally posted by Yu
Zhuk and others,

Whos was Lviv before Polish invasion?
Lets assume that tomorrow Ukkraine will be invaded by US, I am sure that after 50 years they would say that Lviv is US property.

Take the following in cinsidaration:

Lviv has diameter of about 10 km. Take the bus and move 15 km avay from the city center. What language skeak surrounding willages and townt ? If you do not know I will tell you: Thay speak Ukrainian

Do the same In Kyiv. Since covarage area of Kyiv I bigger you will probably have to move 25 km avay from city center.
And then, realise what language speak those people residing in surrounding willages and towns? - Ukrainian.

Invaidors did not go to rural areas where life is hard, where one has to work hard. They reside in Cities, and less in smal towns and finally no one in willages.

If you want to know truth. you have to think logically.

regards,
Yura

Yura, nobody impairs present status of the city of Lviv. It▓s Ukrainian and let it remain Ukrainian.
As for the rural areas: most of them in eastern Ukraine are inhabited by Russian-speaking society, what about their right for self-determination?


[Edited by Bartosz on 27th December 2001 at 12:38]

[zhuk]

It seems me that Yury's reply on the language situation in the villages is a good example to the fact that in town and cities for the last 500 years prevailed either Polish or Russian culture and literature.
Urban culture always is more cosmopolitan than the village one.
An big cities in Ukraine won't speak mostly ukrainian till it won't be created an attractive Urban and modern culture and literature in Ukrainian.
Since the 10th year the Knyazhesky Dinastya in Kiev were varyags or Normans, later Litvinian and so on, Polish, Russians.
The stile of life in villages was not only hard for the intruders, but it had no perspectives.
By the way what Polish intrusion do you mean. When did the Poland captured Lwow?
I still have no information on this date.
But I know that the beloved Chmelnitsky, the nazi hero of modern Ukraine had to lay siege to the city in 1649, cause the city has nearly nothing in common with the mentioned Cossack Rebelion Army.

[zhuk]

I wrote "since 10th year- but I mean "since the tenth century"

[Jarema]

Lwow Lviv Lemberg is in the present day Ukraine.

Relax all Ukrainin patriots. Nobody denies that.

I have to agree with Zhuk on some of the points raised:

- before the 18th-19th century people did not define nationalities as we do today.

- people defined themselves with communities and cities more then with a particular nation.

The Rzeczpospolita (Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth) was not a nationalist creation. Many Rusins were serving the country and treated as their own.

The Emblem of the Rzeczpospolita (at its send) combined the symbols of Poland (white eagle), Lithuania (pogon) and of Ukraine.

So, if you would ask the people of Lwow of the 16th century who are they...... well they would be Lvovians in the first place !!!!!

[Yu]

I "illustated" that Polish & Russians are/were INVADORS.
Reffer to the Oxford dictionary (or any other one)about INVADOR, if you do not know it yet.



Now to russian speaking east. Do you mean Donetsk and other east regions?
Do not tell me that you do not know anything about extermination of Ukrainians there. Now russians live there -that is right. Most of east region ukrainians are in graves, starved to death by Russia. Do not you happen to know about FAMINE IN UKRAINE caused by RUSSIA. The rest are in Siberian graves. Those who left were russified. let me some time I will provide you with more datails and the exact figures.

Zhuk, you have good historian knowledges may be you will provide exact figures on famine in ukraine.

After all, I say: I do not mind Russian or other people living in Ukraine. We have to strenthen together our weak country!!!!


please do not make this forum a stinky swamp

[Bartosz]

Originally posted by Yu
I "illustated" that Polish & Russians are/were INVADORS.
Reffer to the Oxford dictionary (or any other one)about INVADOR, if you do not know it yet.



Now to russian speaking east. Do you mean Donetsk and other east regions?
Do not tell me that you do not know anything about extermination of Ukrainians there. Now russians live there -that is right. Most of east region ukrainians are in graves, starved to death by Russia. Do not you happen to know about FAMINE IN UKRAINE caused by RUSSIA. The rest are in Siberian graves. Those who left were russified. let me some time I will provide you with more datails and the exact figures.

Zhuk, you have good historian knowledges may be you will provide exact figures on famine in ukraine.

After all, I say: I do not mind Russian or other people living in Ukraine. We have to strenthen together our weak country!!!!


please do not make this forum a stinky swamp

Yu, your arguments are a little bit questionable.

Russian speaking society was the majority in the eastern Ukraine since XIX century, and without any acts of violence exceeding the norm of this Иpoque.

Poles were dominant nationality in the Western Galicia by 1943 (the beginning of the ethnic cleansing carried out by UPA).

Americans were in XVIII century the minority in USA.
Englishmen were in XVIII century the minority in Northern Ireland.
Frenchmen were in XVIII century the minority in central Canada (Qebec).
Germans were in XVIII century the minority on Lusice.
Poles in XX century the minority in Lower Silesia.
Ukrainians have never been the essential ethnicity on Crimea.

These are only few facts concerning the ethnicity, the history and the modern days status quo of the certain territories. 2000 years ago Middle and Easter Europe was inhabited by proto-German tribes, and should it have justified Hitler▓s ▒Drag nach Osten▓? What are the limits of the alleged historical ethnicity of the given territories? Aren▓t they conformed for the ethnicity of the dominating actually the territory nation?

[Yu]

Dear Bartosz,

I see you have very deep knowledges on history, cold you please provide some information on famine in ukraine caused by russia and russification of Ukraine, you more than any one else must know a lot about it. I would appreciate it.

Thank you!