Polish city Lwow

[Max_the_Highlander]

When I translate any scientific article stating 70 000 of Ukrainians were arrested and put into prison and then when I add my very personal belief they were murdered, completely my own suggestion, I do not picture any sad image of Ukraine-Jesus dying on the cross.

It's just something we have to remeber very good and to make outcomes.To have better idea which ones are our friends and which ones are not.

The history should prevent us from future mistakes.

[Kathy]

When I have time, I will come back to address a number of issues, including the Khmelnytsky comments, the UPA comments, the comments on Ukrainians in WWII, and national data. There is no denying that Lviv was a "Polish" city. At the same time, there is no denying there was oppression of Ukrainians by Poles. And, I think that in both Ukraine and Poland, there is some hesitancy to discuss the less than stellar aspects of history. However, that is in the past. We can't change it, and should work to better relations today.

[MichaelB_PL]

Originally Posted by bm-21Lemko

<list of Polish crimes.opressions/etc cut>

Ok, taking aside the 1860+ Polish administration in Galicia stuff (because I know very little about that period), I can say that all crimes/opressions/etc you described did indeed happen - in fact, you could also add the dishonorable "Riga treaty
betrayal" after the 1920 Polish-Soviet war to your list.

Still, all of that what you have written, correct as it is, is not in any way contrary to what I wrote - I did't claim that Poles did nothing wrong, I claimed that for some reason, Ukrainians quite often deny or falsify the "uncomfortable" parts of their history.

Actually, after reading your list, I'm not angry, I don't feel hate toward you, I'm not in denial, etc - these things are part of Polish history in the same way as anything else - and I think that's the healthy, normal reaction.
The problem is that if you were Polish and I was Ukrainian and if it would be the list of Ukrainian crimes/other uncomfortable facts, then most likely you would encounter shouts claiming that it's "anti-Ukrainian propaganda!", "Soviet/Polish lies!", etc etc and also lot's of personal insults and other "emotionally allergic" behaviours.

[Max_the_Highlander]

Originally Posted by MichaelB_PL

other "emotionally allergic" behaviours.

When I broke the fake statistics and proved Jews were counted there twice, Polish reaction also was emotionally allergic. And Poles still refuse the fact of 1918-1919 criminal occupation and illegal possesion... this is your own emotional allergy so this is not only Ukrainian problem or not Ukrainian problem at all.

[bm-21Lemko]

The problem is that if you were Polish and I was Ukrainian and if it would be the list of Ukrainian crimes/other uncomfortable facts, then most likely you would encounter shouts claiming that it's "anti-Ukrainian propaganda!", "Soviet/Polish lies!", etc etc and also lot's of personal insults and other "emotionally [COLOR=#519ad5! important][COLOR=#519ad5! important]allergic[/color][/color]" behaviours.

I'll try to keep a opened mind.

[Zbyszek]

The following song comes from an old prewar Polish film "The roaming" 1939 and it is performed by a popular Lwow 'batyar' couple of singers "Shcheptyo a Tontyo". It is deprived of any nationalist colour, offering some typical Lwow language words:
YouTube - Wе┌цЁczд≥gi - Tylko we Lwowie
Some extra explanation concerning the Lwow slang (balak) can be found according to the following Ukrainian Wikipedia link:
п⌡я▄п╡я√п╡я│я▄п╨п╟ пЁпЎп╡я√я─п╨п╟ Б─■ п▓я√п╨я√п©п╣пЄя√я▐

Any prewar Lwow/Lviv inhabitant - Polish, Ukrainian or other knew the famous Lwow duo. Some popular Lwow names like Соломія Крушельницька (Salomea Kruszelnicka) became more Lwowian than Ukranian or Polish.

[IreneLviv]

Isuggest that we close this fruitless dicussion with this lovely song!