Ukraine-Poland-Russia-Lithuania

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by Serhii
I have read the thread Zbyszek

Thank you for picking it up. I am in a hurry right now - tomorrow leave for 2 week vacation to the sea . I will give more details when I am back ( please , note my post in another therad). I'd like to listen to another people ( including Lithuanians )as well. I want to drop only one word here - what were RESULTS of that policy of Poland in 16-17 centuries ?
I'll be back soon , my best.

Serhii, I wish you wonderful holidays at the seaside. They have to be wonderful on a Black Sea shore I guess. Famous Adam noticed this quite early and his "Crimean Sonnets" and "Odessian sonnets" (composed nearly two centuries ago)confirmed it fully.
Policy of Poland? Foreign policy was one of domains which were common for Poland and Lithuania within Rzeczpospolita so you could only say about Rzeczpospolita's foreign policy. Sad enough but many historians including western ones like John Stoye in his "Europe Unfolding 1648-1688" (a good book btw) made this mental abbreviation which is not acceptable to me. Domestic policies and the armies were individual matters controlled by PL and LT.
Serhii, please be more specific. Would you like to assess civilisation achievements, social developments, economic strength or cultural development?
Serhii, I'd like to present one almost forgotten example of political thinking in Lithuania in the year 1700. Have you ever heard of kollizja litovska? It was surely not glorious time, it was sad, deplorable happening heralding decay of Rzeczpospolita. The saddest fact was that it did not happen in an enslaved land but in a free country, citizens of which were born in freedom and they knew who Sobieski was. Yet, out of stupid vanity and empty pride, they became a toy in the Russian Tzar's hands.
No, outright treason of Targowica A.D. 1792 had not happened yet but it was top of inclided plane leading slowly to disaster.
I think I will present my example a little later.

[albatros]

Originally posted by Zbyszek
Dear Ukraine.com participants,
Kind words of Johnstruthers (Vanya) were one of his last clicks before he died un expectedly. Yes, his death was shocking - we lost someone who brought both humour and peace to our discussions. Son of Ukrainian soil, he dared do something very difficult to understand - he returned to his poor motherland from a rich country where he received thorough education. He lived in a decrepit Soviet block apartment in Mykolaiv near Odessa suffering from winter chills caused by inadequate post-Soviet central heating system.
Vanya looked like he had special gift - being unable to hate. Please search through his posts and you will find so optimistic message.
[/b]

Hello Zbyszek,

I stumbled upon this post, and followed your suggestion and read through Vanya's old posts. Indeed, he must have been an idealist to return to Ukraine. I view that as a good thing, because with increasing age it's easier to lose idealism then to maintain it. Vanya's posts are also standing out because he had both a significant knowledge of Ukraine as well as being familiair with western mentality. But to me, most striking is his sense of humour and lively style of writing (no matter the topic: politics, history, current affairs, vodka(!) or food)

So thank you Mr. Z for remembering him!

Albatros

[dobko]

Thanks for reviving this thread. I enoyed reading his posts too. We all need a little shot in the arm now and then.

So what have you been busy with?

[albatros]

Thanks for reviving this thread. I enoyed reading his posts too. We all need a little shot in the arm now and then.

So what have you been busy with? [/quote]
Hi there Dobko!

I've been mostly busy with work. I'm still browsing these forums occassionally. Noticed discussion on the forum picked up recently due to some fresh blood. Len's still quite active too.

I do get to visit Ukraine once or twice a year, mostly short trips to Kiev though. Next spring i might stay longer though. I'm actually contemplating to start a business in Ukraine, but plans are in an early stage.

Do you get to visit Ukraine? From which part of Ukraine did your ancestors come from?

[dobko]

No trips yet, but soon I hope. Mikita keeps asking so we'll have to make it happen sooner than later. It's hard when we both work and the kids are involved in so many activities as well as school.

My family's ancestors all come from Western Ukraine. Exactly where is still a mystery but I'm working on it.



A business you say? What kind if you don't mind me asking?

[benda]

Here - talking about Mongols you have to divide Russia (North-Eastern Rus) and Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania.
Ukraine suffered fro Mongols a lot. But it was liberated by Lithuanians in 1363 while Russia liberated itself only in 1480.
Thousands of people died because of wild cruelty of Mongols... But I don't know how to compae such distant from us thigs with much more recent as Poland, Russia.

Top-3 (mine) - "Cruel leaders of Ukraine", excluding Mongols:

1. Nazi Germany.
2. Russian empire and USSR since the end of XVIII century.
3. Rzecz Pospolita.

[albatros]

Originally posted by dobko
No trips yet, but soon I hope. Mikita keeps asking so we'll have to make it happen sooner than later. It's hard when we both work and the kids are involved in so many activities as well as school.

My family's ancestors all come from Western Ukraine. Exactly where is still a mystery but I'm working on it.



A business you say? What kind if you don't mind me asking?

Dobko, it will be in food & food processing, but no, it ain't salo or horilka, Vanya's favorites ))
Before the project really can take off, i must complete some other projects here in Holland. But i'll report back when there's some real progress.

For you and your family it must be a pretty long trip to Ukraine - where in Canada are you based btw? It takes me only 3 hours, well that's only counting the flight then. Last time it took me like 1.5 hour to get past customs Grrrr