⌠Ukrainians■ and ⌠Russians■ = One People

[Rusnak]

Greetings all,

This is my first post. So many of you are busy pointing out differences, but the Great Russians, Ukrainians/Little Russians, Belo-Russians, Carpatho-Russians, etc. are really one big ethnic group and one people. These East Slav peoples are just as ethnically related as the Chinese for example, who are comprised of many sub-groups, yet who are still all considered to be "Chinese" by the rest of us.

Look at the Germans, or French or Italians - they have diverse sub-groups yet are one people. The "russians" are likewise one large group, from Lvov to Vladivostok. The bloodlines and history run too deep.

Here in the USA, it is more important to say if one is Orthodox or Catholic. The so-called Ukrainian Nationalists may be well meaning, but they are really miss-guided fools and hypocrites who cause trouble and divisiveness. No I am not a 'Moscovite', no I am not calling for immediate reunification, etc.

I just think it is a shame that too many in the Ukraine are busy at ▒nation building▓ instead of trying to improve the current mind-set/culture, which is the real root problem that is holding everyone back. What do you think?

-Rusnak

[Irena]

I think nothing.
It's not interesting even to answer to you
as you don't understand anything either hystory or current life.

[StasUA]

I don't know what to say... I'm just replying because I got free 5-minutes ...

8-) I find it very funny when people like you, speak of things they know less than what I know about life on Mars in a 4000 years from now.

Good luck funny dude,
Stas THE UKRAINIAN

[NORRYM]

Where was Rusnak sleeping all these years? Maybe when he wakes up, fully, he can consult the book EUROPE, by Norman Davies, pg. 41, for an elucidation on who 'Little Russians are NOT'?

emkay/02/11/01

[Edited by NORRYM on 11th February 2001 at 15:43]

[LippyChick]

This has to be a joke. No one in their right mind, or with any mind would have posted this cr*p.

Little Russia! what a total cretin.

These past 10 years have been very hard for you... I would guess.

Glory to Ukraine.

LippyChick

[Rusnak]

OK,

Now that everyone has beat me up, I will try better this time. My point of this thread was to emphasize that Russians are not the enemy of the Ukraine, but stupid Ukrainian thinking is. It would have been better if I had titled my thread ⌠The most important thing for Ukraine - better thinking■. Because I get tired of many Ukrainian ideas and of Ukrainian Nationalists (I do not mind Patriots).

First, I apologize if I sound like a Pan-Slavist, as I do not mean to offend. Also, please forgive if I used old words like Little Russian. You must know that here in America there are many older generation people from Ukraine who talk this way. In fact, in the largest Russian Orthodox church here (Orthodox Church in America √ OCA) say that their members are 30% Ukrainians √ Galicians and Lemkos.

And I do know something. I am 41 year old third generation Ukrainian-American. I have read the famous books of Subtelny, I received the English CCCP newspaper from Kiev, ⌠NFU √ News from Ukraine■ from 1978 until 1990. I have been lucky to travel a lot, and have met Ukrainians in Eastern Europe (Central Europe for Stas), Argentina, Canada, and Northern England.

Now I will give you example of how Ukrainian Nationalists act: my Dido and Baba come from celo near Uzhgorod, Zakarpatska Oblast. In past 10 years they have referendum votes in Zakarpatska Oblast and these people want very much to be recognized as ⌠Rusyns■ people √ their old name, not as Ukrainian people. They vote 79% for this, a big majority. But Ukrainian Nationalists say no, there is no Rusyn people, only Ukrainian people. So these Nationalists cry for freedom from Russia, and to be called Ukrainians and not Russians or Soviets, they must emphasize how different they are from Russians. Then they turn around and deny the Rusyns this same right of recognition. I do not agree with this Rusyn idea, but 79% of them want it and it is their land, so what can I say? Who are Ukrainian Nationalists to deny them their freedom to be what they want to be?

I have many second cousins in Ukraine. One now lives in Kiev and thinks he is Ukrainian. Another cousin now lives in Donetsk. He thinks he is Russian, act like one too! And my cousins in Uzhgorod say they are Rusyns! So I have one family with three nationalities! Crazy.

And now about the stupid thinking in Ukraine: Here in America we are positive thinking people. And if one of us become success, we are happy and cheer for him, because we like to see success, and we get sad if someone lose. This is why many USA films/movies have happy ends. But with my cousins in Ukraine, they become very jealous if somebody is success, and they get happy when he lose!

This kind of thinking is big problem in Ukraine, I and believe a big enemy of Ukraine. Ukraine has great natural resources and potential, so why are they not moving ahead to succeed faster, like Baltic countries? Because of stupid thinking and attitudes.

-Rusnak

[NORRYM]

A good point to start, in getting at the truth, is by going to an independent source. Citing what 'baba' and 'dido' said, or what a Ukrainian historian wrote is not where the remedy lies. The term RUSYNY is a legitimate transitional name for UKRAYINTSI. RUSYNY and ROSIYANY are two different nationalities, though, and that is where most of your confusion lies. This distinction is historically derived and covered comprehensively in the book EUROPE, by Norman Davies, published by Oxford University.

RUSYNY, RUTHENEN in German, were a prominent minority in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Evidently, they were yours and mine ancestors. Through cultural/political evolution they became known as UKRAYINTSI. Markiyan Shashkevich, the noted bard of Halychyna, belonged to a group of three, known as RUS'KA TRIYTSIA, yet he was the first to introduce literary writing in Ukrainian language, in West Ukraine. Shashkevich's counterpart in East Ukraine was Kotlarevskiy. These are mere slices of evolutionary processes, taking place in our past. Going back further in history, our common ancestors evolved culturally and politically in the early Lithuanian Grand Duchy, later the Polish-Lithuanian Grand Duchy. Centuries before the Lithuanian Grand Duchy, history dips into the Kyivska Rus'. When Kievan Princes quarreled, some of them went North and established Muscovy State. It follows from this, that RUSYNY and MOSKALI/ROSIYANY took a different evolutionary course. All this can be gleaned from the cited book, EUROPE.

emkay/02/13/01

[Edited by NORRYM on 13th February 2001 at 09:03]