⌠Ukrainians■ and ⌠Russians■ = One People

[NORRYM]

Some comments on 'Zakarpats'kiy Rusyn'. He was removed, for many years, from the mainstream of 'Rusyn/Ukrayinets' identity formation at large. That is the underlying reason, as I see it, for the confusing collection of anecdotal examples Rusnak brought to this discussions forum. His closest experience, bearing on the origin of roots, comes from 'dido and baba'. Then he got a dose of added misinformation from others with similar background. His clinching argument quotes the lopsided results of the 'nationality vote'. Next, I shall try to elaborate further on these generalized statements.

First, I will address an intriguing question. How is it, that so many inhabitants of Transcarpathian Ukraine {Zakarpats'ka Ukrayina}, which geographically is most distant from Russia, consider themself ethnically so close or even identical to Russians? Part of the answer lies in my second statement of the introduction. Putting it more bluntly: BY BEING REMOVED FROM THE MAINSTREAM, THEY, i.e. ZAKARPATS'KI RUSYNY/UKRAYINTSI, WERE LEAST INFORMED AS TO THEIR TRUE ORIGIN AND, THUS, ARE MOST SUSCEPTIBLE TO RUSSIA-FED PROPAGANDA. The prapaganda was made readily palatable by emphasizing the outwardly associative terminology, RUSYN and RUSSKOY. Concurrently, the propaganda instilled aversion to the term UKRAYINETS as alien and as a component of 'treacherous nationalist manipulation'.

History proves otherwise, as already was pointed out in my preceding posts. The term RUSYN, enjoyed an intermediate usage in our historical past and, through the cultural/political evolution, became UKRAYINETS. The derivation of UKRAYINETS could be a topic for a separate study/discussion.

Others {than Rusnak}, who still treat the term RUSYN as some curiosity, invention, myth, separate ethnic entity or, worse yet, as equivalent to RUSSKOY, would be well advised to revisit a serious UKRAINE HISTORY book, to reaffirm a true awareness of their roots.

emkay/02/17/01

[Edited by NORRYM on 17th February 2001 at 20:04]

[The_Last_Word]

I think many of those who call themselves Ukrainians (on this forum), who think they know their "origins," don't know what they are talking about.

RUSYNY and ROSIYANY are two different nationalities

There is no nationality by the name of Rosiyany.

Through cultural/political evolution they [Rusyni] became known as UKRAYINTSI

By this "evolution," you must mean the Communist-imposed nationalities policy, correct?

MOSKALI/ROSIYANY

Again, there is no nationality by that name.

Don't you know that Russians used to take our name when Moskovite state has been created? And russini became russian. Unlike them we became ukrainians.
Who are russians? They are russuni mixing with chudi etc.
It's simple...

Of course, Irena, simple things amuse simple minds.
You forgot that Russians also "stole" your land, language, culture, religion, literature, church, etc. They took your "Ukrainian" princes and icons, books and architecture, art and music, right?
You just wish you can now assume the right to Russian history and everything that Russia has.
And when was it that Rusyni became Russian? Could you tell me what they were before?

As a point of interest, you might like to know that the corruption both state and mafia is far worse in Russia than in Ukraine.

(Ukrainian) ignorance is truly blinding to the beholder.

3.) I have lived most of my life in Ukraine, and have I never heard of a "Rusyn" nationality, which is a majority also

Bolshevik, Unso and Kuchma-ist brainwashing is very effective.

curiosity about one's roots is to be admired

That just says that you, Norrym, don't have any admiration for yourself.

Some comments on 'Zakarpats'kiy Rusyn'. He was removed, for many years, from the mainstream of 'Rusyn/Ukrayinets' identity formation at large. That is the underlying reason, as I see it, for the confusing collection of anecdotal examples Rusnak brought to this discussions forum. His closest experience, bearing on the origin of roots, comes from 'dido and baba'. Then he got a dose of added misinformation from others with similar background. His clinching argument quotes the lopsided results of the 'nationality vote'. Next, I shall try to elaborate further on these generalized statements.

I can't believe this guy. Sounds like I'm hearing a sentence passed down against an enemy-of-the-people by a Ukrainian-Communist court. Or is it a witch trial in the Middle Ages? Anyway, to hell with the older generation of Ukrainian Russophiles. If they call themselves Rusyns or Russians, they are all definitely products of "Muscovite propaganda."
Rysins are actually all Ukrainians, they just don't know it yet. Norrym, better hurry up and tell them.

BY BEING REMOVED FROM THE MAINSTREAM, THEY, i.e. ZAKARPATS'KI RUSYNY/UKRAYINTSI, WERE LEAST INFORMED AS TO THEIR TRUE ORIGIN AND, THUS, ARE MOST SUSCEPTIBLE TO RUSSIA-FED PROPAGANDA.

Easy on the CAPS there (bad word) boy. Naturally, Lvov-fed propaganda is closer to home, and, of course, Norrym knows much more about the "true origins" of Carpathian Rus, and anything else, for that matter, in his own view.
However, since, according to the Ukrainian, Irena, mentioned above, who said that the Russians took the Ukrainians' name (i.e. "Russians"), all Ukrainians should be called Russians. That makes Rysins one of the peoples of the Ukraine who have kept their original name and didn't "give it away" to anyone.

outwardly associative terminology, RUSYN and RUSSKOY.

You don't know (bad word) about terminology.

History proves otherwise

Why don't you go read some, so you would know what it actually proves.

The term RUSYN, enjoyed an intermediate usage in our historical past and, through the cultural/political evolution, became UKRAYINETS

According to your "theory of evolution" people like you can only go one way: Rusyn to Ukrainets to monkey.

The derivation of UKRAYINETS could be a topic for a separate study/discussion

I am sure you have another "theory of evolution" for this also.

a serious UKRAINE HISTORY book

Why, isn't that an oxymoron?

to reaffirm a true awareness of their roots.

More like, to confuse and discourage.


[Edited by StasUA on 21st February 2001 at 18:35]

[StasUA]

As a moderator I won't be editing your posts next time, but just deleting them if they'll contain violent words.

As a response:

You sound like you "REALLY" know a lot about this stuff lol.. you know that you're wrong so you're yelling and saying that everybodies wrong just because you said so

I don't know who are you, you're probably someone who's ashamed to reveal his previous nickname... but dude, each and every of your "after quote message" are deceptive and just shows your lack of knowledge about this subject.

See, I don't argue about the origins of cactus(a plant) because I simply lack knowledge on that subject. And I suggest you doing the same.

Good luck,
Stas

[The_Last_Word]

Sorry, dude, for the "violent" words. HOpe I didn't start a riot by mistake.

As a moderator I won't be editing your posts next time, but just deleting them if they'll contain "violent" words

Somehow, I suspect you'll be editing and deleting them regardless of violent words.

you know that you're wrong so you're yelling and saying that everybodies wrong just because you said so

Who's yelling? Isn't everyone else saying the same thing? Can't single me out. Everybody was just saying something because they're comfortable with it.

I don't know who are you,

Well, I know who you are. A displaced-by-mistake teenager who badly needs to grow up.

you're probably someone who's ashamed to reveal his previous nickname...

Yeah, right. That would automatically brand me as "an enemy of the forum." And you would like that. So, tell me how many people have you banned for disagreeing with the "official" line of UKrainian "history"? It's my first time here, but not my first encounter with self-styled Ukrainian "historians" and their concoctions. So, from the start I got the feeling that a similar fait awaits me at Ukraine.com as those who've been here before. This obviously seems like a "righteous" place, where people can't handle any criticism, and instead mock, degrade and accuse anyone who disagrees with their opinion.

each and every of your "after quote message" are deceptive and just shows your lack of knowledge about this subject

That's funny, because I haven't even started saying much. Just countering false and unfounded Ukrainian claims to Russian history. But any normal person would notice inconsistencies in your "Ukrainian history," just as I have pointed out in the previous post. So if you care to prove or disprove any of the points above, you're on.

[Bartosz]

Originally posted by StasUA
[...]

If one say that he is a moderator, that it doesn't mean that he is him, or if he really is, that he's doing his job well.

You ignore patent vulgarisms and when appears opinion maybe controversial, but at first incomfortable for some because of their nationality members of this forum, you intervene.

This way you are in the course of transforming this forum into the association of the common adoration, not a place of free exchange of the ideas.

If you are moderator, it doesn't necessarily mean you should be him.

[Bartosz]

Fellows representing complaining nation refuse some citizens of some country to make their choice of their own identity. Copying the sins of their alleged persecutors?

[NORRYM]

The perfidious snake who, having no wiggle room left, slithers around the truth and spits venom of lame diatribe. But first, by a stroke on the keyboard, he proclaims himself a winner on the 'Rusyny' issue. He is following the example of Valuev, who in 1863, by a stroke of his pen, proclaimed the Ukrainian language illegal. The Ukrainian language survived then, so will the truth on the roots of the Transkarpathian Rusyny/Ukrayintsi now.

emkay/02/21/01