⌠Ukrainians■ and ⌠Russians■ = One People

[Irena]

Rusnak, you are like baby, really and truly.
Don't you know that Russians used to take our name when Moskovite state has been created? And russini became russian. Unlike them we became ukrainians.
Who are russians? They are russuni mixing with chudi etc.
It's simple...
Secondly, your cousines are not all Ukraine. I think there are jelous men and women in USA as well.
There are around me all sorts of people including jelous fools. But my close friends are always glad to my success.
It would be more honest of you to say: "I understand nothing in Ukraine. Explain me, pls. My Dido and Babo was telling me too much of tale about Ukraine in my childhood and I took those tales as reality".

[steve_vlasenko]

As I'm late to the debate, I really only have this too say. My company (the largest Communication software company in the world) runs it's former soviet union division from Kyiv, as do Marconi / Bosch and a host of other leading software - electronic companies. Naturally this has lead to a lot of hostility from Russia. Therefore, I see it as only natural that there should be talk of Russian - Ukrainian union. It's too much of a bloody nose for Russia to take "those little Russia winning in the technology race". It's a fact and they'll just have to live with it.

As a point of interest, you might like to know that the corruption both state and mafia is far worse in Russia than in Ukraine.

Take care.

Vlas

[Bartosz]

Originally posted by steve_vlasenko

As I'm late to the debate, I really only have this too say. My company (the largest Communication software company in the world) runs it's former soviet union division from Kyiv, as do Marconi / Bosch and a host of other leading software - electronic companies. Naturally this has lead to a lot of hostility from Russia. Therefore, I see it as only natural that there should be talk of Russian - Ukrainian union. It's too much of a bloody nose for Russia to take "those little Russia winning in the technology race". It's a fact and they'll just have to live with it.

As a point of interest, you might like to know that the corruption both state and mafia is far worse in Russia than in Ukraine.

Take care.

Vlas

Vlas, have a look at this:

http://www.gwdg.de/~uwvw/2000CPI.xls

Ukraine leads in the ranks. But as a specialist in telecommunication (I guess that in your case fog signals - the technology taken directly from the leader: North Corea) you don't need to know about it.

Take cure.

[Bartosz]

The funniest of all is that the convictions of my stricked discutants let them play the role of the oracle having credintials for stating who is who.

[StasUA]

Rusnak, about what you said about the "thinking part" I won't reply, it's silly.

But what you said about your family consisting of 3 nationalities... so why are you saying that it is crazy, if that's the truth? I think they all know better than you, who they are ... if one of them says he is russian, let him be russian... so? It's so difficult to keep track of which people in your family come from which Nation?

Hehe... and "Central Europe" is not just for me, but it is a fact, which is denied by majority.

Good luck,
Stas

[Rusnak]

Stas,

1. Bartosz▓s statistics help shine a light on how people in Ukraine today behave and act and think, compared to other countries. As a Ukrainian American, I am ashamed if these statistics are accurate. Also, it looks like Poland is much less corrupt. Why such a difference from two countries sides by side? Different thinking? Different cultures? Different morals and ethics? Are the Ukrainians to blame or should we blame the Russians, since we blame them for almost everything else?

2. Regarding my family with ⌠three nationalities■, all of my cousins were born north of Uzhgorod. Here is my question to you and others: All the Polish people know they are Polish. Why don▓t my Ukrainian cousins know who they are? Maybe I have an excuse for my ignorance √ I am American. But them? They are born and have lived their whole lives in Ukraine.

3. Do you think it is right for Kiev to deny the ⌠Rusyn■ people who think they are ⌠Rusyn■ not to have recognition, even with 79% Yes vote? Or are people in Ukraine not really free? Maybe Ukrainian nationality is not complete?

-Rusnak
A Patriot but not a Nationalist

__________________

Sorry I don▓t have a philosophy quote here like the others...

[NORRYM]

No offense, but for an inquisitive individual that you present yourself to be, you are paradoxically very closed-minded. Your observations may have some merit, if you could place them in a proper perspective. Shooting from the hip, like you do, will not win you any arguments and will not contribute to a potential meeting of the minds.

A good starting point, for you, would be to familiarize yourself with an objective HISTORY OF UKRAINE. You keep harping on the alleged distortion by the 'NATIONALIST' sources. I ran past you a brief historical review, based on the book, Europe, by Norman Davies {obviously not a Slav}, which you chose to ignore. Instead, you keep repeating your, by now worn out, aspersions, based on your anecdotal knowledge alone. Living in a free world, like you do, you can choose any source to satisfy your intellectual curiosity in an unbiased manner. If you consider my recommendation suspect, library doors are wide open for you to discover your own selection. This might put your obcession with the pouring of slime on the 'Nationalists' to bed, when you discover that their version of UKRAINE HISTORY does not depart too far from the 'NON-NATIONALIST' one.

Until you take this one small step, toward the formation of an uncorrupted perspective, there is little point to conduct the discussion, provocatively titled by you 'UKRAINIANS' AND 'RUSSIANS' - ONE PEOPLE, any further.

emkay/02/15/01