Mazepa - Hero or Traitor?

[Spak]

Originally Posted by Lvivske

I have so far failed to see this wonderful side to Mazepa. Can you elaborate? On the paper I wrote on this subject, I was hoping that I would find both Russian and Ukrainian views to be equally flawed but found the latter to be more removed from the truth when assessing the actual actions. Many journalists and diplomats of the time sided with Mazepa/Sweden...I'm not sure if this is just being anti-Russian or what, but outside of a few stray quotes I fail to see actual actions where Mazepa exhibited either this spirit of Kozak freedom or Ukrainian liberation. The only flaw I saw with the Russian side was that it was an exaggerated truth, and that Peter the "Great" was just as much a traitor, and deserving of the consequences that bestowed him.

That said, I agree with everything else you say.

Lvivske,


Well, as I said, we are all self-interested parties - including historians. So when you did your research, who were your sources of information? Where did they come from? What was their background? Who were their teachers? Where did their teachers get their information from? Mazepa's lifetime was more than 300 years ago - What were the national interests represented in the chain of reference that flows back to the sources of those times? Ukrainian? Very unlikely.

In fact, most historical information on Ukraine comes from Polish and Russian sources. Sources that have proven themselves throughout history to be un-trustworthy and pernicious with respect to Ukraine.

I don't mean to fault you for using these sources. There is not much to be found in terms of publicly available historical Ukrainian accounts of anything. Historically, both Russians and Poles went to great lengths to try to extinguish the Ukrainian voice. To extinguish Ukrainian language and culture. Mass genocide of millions of Ukrainians. Burning of books. Passing of laws to make our language illegal in our own land. Treacherous murder of nearly all Ukrainian Kobazar's (Kobazar's who collectively represented Ukraine's long history in a verbal tradition - using song and poetry to pass it along.) By the way, this murderous terror against the Kobazar's actually took place in the 1960's. The campaign against Ukraine isn't just something from the distant past. It's current too. Sadly.

On the bright side, there are scholars in Ukraine who understand this. They are strong and continue working to set the records straight. In due time, the world will be able to hear the history of Ukraine spoken by a Ukrainian voice. Maybe then it will be more possible to study and come to informed conclusions. But not until then.

So to elaborate, my opinion on Mazepa is just my opinion. But considering the above, I don't see any credible evidence to the contrary.

Regards,
Спак

[Lvivske]

in total I looked at Ukrainian historians; ethnic Ukrainian Russian historians; German, English, and American reports from when it happened; Soviet history; Russian history; and so on, and all of this on top of primary sources/accounts, Mazepa's writings, etc.