Nebyliv, first immigrants to Canada update

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by Kathy
Apparently his descendants use this version and it was found spelled this way by Ivan himself on several documents.

When Ivan Pylypiw arrived in Canada, his passport was from the Austro-Hungarian empire. "Pylypow" was the Polish version of his surname (Galicia being under Polish administration and part of Poland then). That is why there is a difference in the spelling from the original(and all his descendants used this spelling). This was not unusual in those days, and even later. When my Grandmother, God rest her soul, emigrated, her name was changed from Anastasia (which the emigration officer apparently found too complicated) to Annie on all her paperwork.
...

Hello Kathy, I read this thread with interest. Yes, we could talk endlessly about changing names and about how sensitive people can be about it. I would like to add that Polish version of Pylypiw's name would rather be Filipow. And yes, there was exactly the same case with my Polish American family in the beg. of 20th cent. When they arrived in Pennsylvania -Anastasia's name was shortened to Anna.
I have also been interested in how my own family name was subjected to variations depending on who kept the church or state records in central Poland (which used to be a part of Russia at that time). The ending -niak was sometimes written as -nio. What was the most funny - in spoken local language/dialect, the name could sound different than in writing, so confusion was unavaidable. We must have in mind that the most of people at that time were illiterate and such unbelievably poor. My search in the parish was really exciting, the records were kept in three languages depending on historical period: Latin, Polish and Russian.

About Galicia before WWI - that land was a part of relatively liberal Austro-Hungarian empire and Poles enjoyed autonomy but there was no independent Poland at that time. Hence, Serhii's statement "But in 19 century Polish government did the same.." is historically incorrect - there was no Polish government at that time (excluding a very short period in the beg, of XIXth cent. when Napoleon created a little state called Warsaw Duchy).
Hi Serhii, your voice is interesting but your explanation about would-be Polish ending '-Сw' does not seem to be correct.

[Edited by Zbyszek on 15th February 2006 at 00:24]

[Serhii]

Hi Zbyshek,

It was nice to run into your post here. For sure Poland as an independent state didn't exist at that time, and there wasn't any central Polish government in Warsaw or elsewhere.
But as you say 'relatively liberal' Austro-Hungarian state was empire and its basic principle was 'part and rule'. Galicia was ruled by Polish nobles - they were owners of land , etc.,

Kathy wrote about it as well , look above - 'Galicia being under Polish administration...'

It was a real disaster for Ukrainians. They were forced to change not only their names (if only) , but to leave their own land. Pylypiv and thousands of others had to escape from those rulers. Without going into details I called it Polish government, but could have written Polish administration or local Polish governments in Galicia, etc.
I do not think it changes much. We weren't talking Polish state as you know, but situation in West Ukraine.

The Polish spelling Filipov fully looks like the Russian one. So it is obvious the name was twisted in Polish manner under circumstances I mentioned above. I thought the form Pylypuv ( like you wrote - I do not have Polish font) was possible in modern Polish - thank you for correction.

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by Serhii
Hi Zbyshek,

It was nice to run into your post here. For sure Poland as an independent state didn't exist at that time, and there wasn't any central Polish government in Warsaw or elsewhere.
...Pylypiv and thousands of others had to escape from those rulers. Without going into details I called it Polish government, but could have written Polish administration or local Polish governments in Galicia, etc.
I do not think it changes much. We weren't talking Polish state as you know, but situation in West Ukraine.

...

Hi Serhii, thank you for your voice. You know, I really do not want to anatgonize, I would just like to make the emigration picture broader. Galicia was a land of extreme poverty - but it was not only Ukrainian poverty. Poor Polish and Ukrainian peasants emigrated side by side. As to "Polish administration", I have already tried to explain this to Hannia (who I respect as well). It was not any fault of Poles they they were educated and thus used for the purpose of administrative jobs. Austrians just used people as well as they could. I agree that position of rising Ukrainain nation was more difficult than that of more established Polish one.
At the same time poor and primitive masses of both Polish and Ukrainian people suffered humilititing economic hardship and it was PRIMARY reason for their emigration.
There was a term in use in all Poland's territory: galitsyiska bieda and it was synonym of extreme poverty.
Some Americans, observing these so primitive people, regarded them not much better than Indians and general image of this emigration in America was not impressive at all.

[Serhii]

Hello Zbyszek,

I am sure Hannia ( as well as me ) would like to see you ( or at least some people like you) in that Polish administration. But,firstly, we need you here for further useful and friendly talks. And secondly the time passed as you know - no any opportunity to change anything left. That administration wasn't fair , no any single good word - at least I haven't heard or read.

It wasn't any foult of Poles that they were educated for sure. It was a crucial foult of Ukrainians that they were Ukrainians. Even extaordinary well educated ones couldn't achieve anything. Administration watched it carefully. It was its main purpose.

As for extreme poverty I fully agree with you. Combined with all I mentioned above it forced people to leave their native land.

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by Serhii
Hello Zbyszek,

...
That administration wasn't fair , no any single good word - at least I haven't heard or read.

Hello Serhii, thank you for your kind words.

Let me challenge your opinion on Polish administration of Galicia.

Michal Bobrzynski was a governor of Galicia after Andrzey Potocki's murder by a Ukrainian terrorist.
Bobrzynski did not call for revenge as it was widely supposed. Instead, he tried to find an honest balance between conflicting nations in the region. He was perceived by many nationalist catholics as traitor.
He has been ruling Galicia for only five years (1908-1913) and he resigned after being accussed many times by his countrymen.
Bobrzynski was honest historian and his "History of Poland" is still of value and can be found on shelves under roofs of contemporary readers' houses. I mentioned him in History Forum some time ago.

Regards
Zbigniew

[Cokie2]

I have received a reply from StatsCanada from a request for a search of the National Registration of 1940 which every Canadian citizen over 16 was required to do. Unfortunately my grandparent's parent's names weren't in the results. But there was some valuable inf. including their exact birthdates, which can be helpful in locating their birth records from church records. Also, my grandfather was in the Austrian army in 1901 for 6 months. He was 16 or 17 at the time. Both listed Dolina as their place of origin. This would be the county or district I assume as he was from Perehinsky and she from neighboring Nebyliv, I'm not exactly certain of the districts they were in at the time. It also gave the date of immigration to Canada. Both had no education and signed the document with an X so both were illiterate. The search costs $50 each and takes up to 60 days.