Looking for family in Subotov

[Marisa]

Would like to begin search for possible surviving family members in the Chigirin region, village of Subotov. Am interested in finding someone in that area to help in search.
If anyone knows of someone I would appreciate the information.

[Hannia]

TODAY selo/village Subotiv > Chyhyrynskij (Chigirin, district center, as transliterated from Russian) raion/district > Cherkaska Oblast/Region (when it was part of Czarist Russia, area part of Kievskaya Guberniya, )> Ukraine (UA abbr) > current zip code is 20914

THE CHRONOLOGY OF THE SUBOTIV SETTLEMENT
Victor I. Klochko, Nikolai N. Kovaliukh, Vadim V. Skripkin and Ingo Motzenbecker

ABSTRACT. Samples collected at the Chornoliska culture site near the village of Subotiv, Cherkasy region during the 1994-1995 Ukrainian-German expedition were radiocarbon dated in Kiev. The foundation of the Subotiv settlement dates to 1300-1200 cal bc. A skeleton found in one of the buildings at this site is dated at the end of the early period (between 1120 and 1040 cal bc). In the youngest part (a small town) of the Subotiv settlement, we found the remains of a "building sacrifice"--the skeleton of a teenager. The average calibrated date for this skeleton is 834-807 cal bc, whereas the timber from the rampart dates between 902-810 cal bc. Thus, the rampart was apparently built between 834-807 cal bc. Among the objects found on the site were Arzhan-type bone arrowheads. Such arrowheads, when found in Eastern Europe, are believed to indicate the military expansion of Proto-Scythian nomads. The Sargary settlement in western Kazakhstan dates to 960-820 cal bc, the Arzhan arrow in Siberia to 960-850 cal bc. We assume that the Chornogorivka complexes in eastern Eurasia date to the earlier time period (960-820) than those in western Eurasia (834-807). The time of the Chornogorivka expansion on the territory of Ukraine is therefore within the range 834 to 820 bc.

excerpt from
Klochko, 40(1-2)
http://www.radiocarbon.org/Subscribe...ochko_667.html
______________________________________________________

What time frame are you researching? What religion was practiced by family ?

If your family was Christian Orthodox, your blood is Cossack and your heritage is historically very colorful.

___________________________________________________________

Bohdan Khmelnytskij, Hetman of the Zaporizhian Host, was born in Chyhyryn.
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Zaporozhian_Host
______________________________________________________

Poem written re Subotiv church (St. Elias) by Taras Shevchenko

Subotiv in Ukrainian:
http://poetry.uazone.net/kobzar/stoi..._subotovi.html

Translation of poem into English:
Subotiv
In the village of Subotiv,
Upon a lofty hill
There stands the coffin of Ukraine -
A crypt both wide and still:
It is the church of great Bohdan,
Where once he used to pray
That Muscovite and Cossack might
Share good and ill away.
May peace be to your soul, Bohdan!
Their gain has been our loss:
The Muscovites have snatched away
All that they came across;
And now they rend the burial mounds
In search of further loot;
Their hand assaults your hidden vaults;
They curse your soul to boot
Because they've nothing for their pains┘
That's how it is, Bohdan!
You've ruined derelict Ukraine
By your most friendly plan!
And this must be the gratitude
Now falling to your share┘
The church that once had coffined you
No neighbor will repair!
And thus it is, Zenobius,
Alexey's faithful friend,
You gave them all but gratefulness
Is plainly at an end!
They say, you know, that all Ukraine
Was always really theirs,
And that we only farmed it out
To all the Tartars' heirs
And to the Poles┘ Appears it so?
Suppose it is the truth!
But on that score the neighbor's tongues
Deride us without truth┘
Yet do not laugh, ye foreign folk!
That church beneath the skies
May crumble down, but from its vaults
A new Ukraine will rise
To end the night of slavery;
Injustice will be gone;
Our serf-borne sons' glad orisons
Will greet sweet Freedom's dawn!

PS> The church in Subotiv was the burial place of Bohdan Khmelnitsky, who Shevchenko insisted, sold Ukraine's freedom to Russia by his participation in the Treaty of Pereyaslav. Zenobius was another name for Bohdan Khmelnytsky and Alexy was Tsar Alexy, the other signer of Treaty.

Watercolors that go w/above.
http://www.infoukes.com/culture/artw...Images/31.html

http://www.infoukes.com/culture/artw...Images/36.html
_______________________________________________________

Some current pictures from Subotiv
http://faculty.virginia.edu/kononenk...hnography.html

[Edited by Hannia on 15th November 2005 at 12:43]

[Marisa]

"What time frame are you researching? What religion was practiced by family ?"

My parents were both born in Subotov in 1912 and 1917. They left during the second World War and never knew if any family survivied. Although my mother spoke of communists shuting down churches she also spoke of priests blessing easter bread in her childhood so I'm assuming it was Christian Orthodox.

[Hannia]

A key to exactly what their German experience was, can be found in immigration documents. All DP's filled out personal questionnaires, some of which have landed up in the hands of the American Immigration Svce in DC. That is if they emigrated to USA.

What is the family history? Where did the family settle?
______________________________________________

Munchen/Munich looks to have been in American Zone.

MЭnchen / Munich (U.S. Z), Jews, Ukrainians, Balts

Ukrainian Free Acad. of Science & Shevchenko Scientific Society published from Munich. Prior to closing in 1947, UNRRA Univ. had 1,400 students (majority Ukrainian, Latvian & Poles) (Wyman, p. 125) Ukrainian Free University broke off from Harvard research team because they wanted to be identified as Ukrainians, not Russians (Wyman, P.158).
Ukrainische Freie Universitat - Bibliothek (Library)
Pienzenauerstrasse 15
81679 Muenchen
Tel: 089/99738845
Fax: 089/99738850
E-Mail: kdx01010@mail.lrz-muenchen.de

State archives: Staatsarchiv fЭr Oberbayern: Hauptstaatsarchiv V
D 8000 MЭnchen 22, Schonfeldstr. 3
Germany

City archive / Stadtarchiv Muenchen
Winzererstrasse 68, 80797
Muenchen Deutschland Germany
Tel: 089/123-4031, -4032, -4033, -4034,
Fax 089/123-5301,
http://www.muenchen.de/handb96/kultur4.htm

City offices:
Tel. (089) 233-00 (Call-Center)
E-Mail: rathaus@muenchen.de
http://www.muenchen.de/home/7030/contact.html
http://www.muenchen.de/

Deutsches Museum, Archiv, Museumsinsel 1, D-80538 MЭnchen, Tel.: 089/2179-220, Telefax: 089/2179-324
http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/DT-MUSEUM/dme10.htm

Sudetendeutsches Archiv e.V., Hochstr. 8, 81669 MЭnchen, Tel.: 089/4800030

Gemeindearchiv GrДfelfing, EgerlДnderstr. 1, 82166 GrДfelfing

Archive of Munich workers / Archiv der MЭnchner Arbeiterbewegung e. V., EbenbЖckstr. 11, 81241 MЭnchen, Tel.: 089/8344683

UniversitДtsarchiv der Ludwig-Maximilians-UniversitДt MЭnchen, Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, 80539 MЭnchen

Institut fЭr Zeitgeschichte MЭnchen
Leonrodstrasse 46 b
80636 MЭnchen
Tel.: 089.126880
Fax: 089.1231727
E-mail: ifz@ifz-muenchen.de

Russian orthodox / Russisch-orthodoxe DiЖzese des orthodoxen Bischofs von Berlin und Deutschland KdЖR, Archiv, Schirmerweg 78, 81247 MЭnchen

Ukrainer in Munchen und der Bundesrepublik. Prokoptschuk, Gregor. Verlag Ukraine. 112s. 24cm. Language--G. Munchen, 1959, at Shevchenko Scientific Society Library

United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration Archives Record Group: PAG 4 Box 18-22: District 5: Mittenwald, Feldafing, Munich, Leipheim

City of Munchen history: http://www.flughafentransfers-muenchen.de/


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We got the copy of the "International Refugee Orgainization Resettlement Status Slip" that was issued from the Munich Resettlement Center. The center is IRO Area Munich - Sub Area Rosenheim - Mulhldorf. By writing the authorities in Munich (we knew that my grandparents and my father had been interredin Rosenheim after the war) they sent us a copy. Along with this copy we were also issued what the Munich government had for birth and marriage certificates. Hope this helps. Mary Parker
I have a friend who came from a DP camp in Munich. She was born there in 1946 and was brought to America in 1949 or 1950. She was separated from her mother and would like to information on how she could locate her. She knows very little except for the fact that her mother apparently went to Bueno Aires. If you can make any suggestions on where to begin it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Carole

Olga's reply: The web site of DirecciКn Nacional de Migraciones de Argentina is
http://www.migraciones.gov.ar
Buenos Aires office's address is:
Av. AntДrtida Argentina 1355, Retiro, Buenos Aires, Argentina.

Olga,
Are you familiar with a Polish slave labor camp close to Munich (Munchen) called SLONIE? It's a Polish name. Whether it's the name of the camp or just a Polish name, I don`t know... Just found out that`s were my mother was taken for about 3 years when she was about 16 years old....The information on your web-site is always interesting and informative. Thanks, Stan Bycko

Hi Olga, You can't get tired of hearing how great a service you provide. I came across this site because I am trying to gather any little tidbit of information for my husband who born in a refugee camp in Munich. We know very little, and I still do not know where to start.

My husband's father was born in Translyvania, Romania, his mom, in Budapest. Their first son was born in Dauchon, but had a different dad from the following 4 boys, but we have no name. The following 4 boys were born in various refugee camps in Germany.One was born in Munich Germany.

The whole family immigrated to the U.S. believed to be in 1955. My husband remembers seeing the Statue of Liberty as the boat was near the end of it's journey. He also remembers the train ride from the east to California where they settled in El Monte CA. He says a church sponsored his family or group.

Both parents have passed. We are quite sure his mom has living family in Hungary and in Romania. She went back to Hungary and visited her remaining relatives. She came back very happy and had a very good feeling about the experience, but shared very little of actual helpful info. We are trying to get a connection with a translator so we can contact people listed in the phone directory with same surnames.

Thank you again for giving, you are blessed. Iva Konya

12/28/04 Hi Olga
This is a long shot but we are looking for a girl born near Munich? Oct 1945. We have the first name of the (mother Auntrij or Ontray) and the baby girl, Stormy, but no last name--sadly the mother died giving birth. Our father talked of her always and Stormy did write Dad a letter in 1966 but we don't have any other information to go on. We tried to trace military records but find more questions than answers would you have any suggestions Our father passed in 1994. The boys in our family talked of two things: 1) Dad told them they liberated a camp there were women that looked healthy and taken care of but had been used as experiments, and 2) They let them go. We are wondering if that could have been Ontray. Also dad said there was a large statue of Jesus with a cellar underneath. It that was a landmark at end of war in Germany. I know it must be hard to try to keep up with the web site and to try to help so many. Thank you, Olga. We have been trying every thing and truly appreciate your time and advice. I will try your recommendations. Linda

1/4/05
I am trying to find about my mother's family.
I was born in Loipfering, Germany in 1944.
Mother's name: Theres Liebl. She was Catholic I don't know what this means: "Geb. Rg. Nr. 60 Eging." (Eging is a city in Germany).
My birth certificate says: International Refugee Organization. Area 7 Legal Consultation Office - Laitpold Caserne Munich.
My adopted father: Boris Charatjan, worker, national of Russia. Married to Theres Charatjan, born Liebl, married in Bad Hohenstadt, both were residing in Grunwald, Bavaria Germany. Renate Theresia Liebl

10/24/05 My father in law escaped Lithuania, and spent time with this mother and older brother in a DP camp north of Munich. He says it was called English Scott. I am trying to get any and all information for this camp as I cannot find it online. Thanks, Mary Strickland Dibonas


Munich-Laim Area Team 1066
MЭnchen Neu Freimann

____

MЭnchen / Munich (U.S. Z), Jews, Ukrainians, Balts

Ukrainian Free Acad. of Science & Shevchenko Scientific Society published from Munich. Prior to closing in 1947, UNRRA Univ. had 1,400 students (majority Ukrainian, Latvian & Poles) (Wyman, p. 125) Ukrainian Free University broke off from Harvard research team because they wanted to be identified as Ukrainians, not Russians (Wyman, P.158).
Ukrainische Freie Universitat - Bibliothek (Library)
Pienzenauerstrasse 15
81679 Muenchen
Tel: 089/99738845
Fax: 089/99738850
E-Mail: kdx01010@mail.lrz-muenchen.de

State archives: Staatsarchiv fЭr Oberbayern: Hauptstaatsarchiv V
D 8000 MЭnchen 22, Schonfeldstr. 3
Germany

City archive / Stadtarchiv Muenchen
Winzererstrasse 68, 80797
Muenchen Deutschland Germany
Tel: 089/123-4031, -4032, -4033, -4034,
Fax 089/123-5301,
http://www.muenchen.de/handb96/kultur4.htm

City offices:
Tel. (089) 233-00 (Call-Center)
E-Mail: rathaus@muenchen.de
http://www.muenchen.de/home/7030/contact.html
http://www.muenchen.de/

Deutsches Museum, Archiv, Museumsinsel 1, D-80538 MЭnchen, Tel.: 089/2179-220, Telefax: 089/2179-324
http://www.lrz-muenchen.de/DT-MUSEUM/dme10.htm

Sudetendeutsches Archiv e.V., Hochstr. 8, 81669 MЭnchen, Tel.: 089/4800030

Gemeindearchiv GrДfelfing, EgerlДnderstr. 1, 82166 GrДfelfing

Archive of Munich workers / Archiv der MЭnchner Arbeiterbewegung e. V., EbenbЖckstr. 11, 81241 MЭnchen, Tel.: 089/8344683

UniversitДtsarchiv der Ludwig-Maximilians-UniversitДt MЭnchen, Geschwister-Scholl-Platz 1, 80539 MЭnchen

Institut fЭr Zeitgeschichte MЭnchen
Leonrodstrasse 46 b
80636 MЭnchen
Tel.: 089.126880
Fax: 089.1231727
E-mail: ifz@ifz-muenchen.de

Russian orthodox / Russisch-orthodoxe DiЖzese des orthodoxen Bischofs von Berlin und Deutschland KdЖR, Archiv, Schirmerweg 78, 81247 MЭnchen

Ukrainer in Munchen und der Bundesrepublik. Prokoptschuk, Gregor. Verlag Ukraine. 112s. 24cm. Language--G. Munchen, 1959, at Shevchenko Scientific Society Library

United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration Archives Record Group: PAG 4 Box 18-22: District 5: Mittenwald, Feldafing, Munich, Leipheim

City of Munchen history: http://www.flughafentransfers-muenchen.de/


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We got the copy of the "International Refugee Orgainization Resettlement Status Slip" that was issued from the Munich Resettlement Center. The center is IRO Area Munich - Sub Area Rosenheim - Mulhldorf. By writing the authorities in Munich (we knew that my grandparents and my father had been interredin Rosenheim after the war) they sent us a copy. Along with this copy we were also issued what the Munich government had for birth and marriage certificates. Hope this helps. Mary Parker
I have a friend who came from a DP camp in Munich. She was born there in 1946 and was brought to America in 1949 or 1950. She was separated from her mother and would like to information on how she could locate her. She knows very little except for the fact that her mother apparently went to Bueno Aires. If you can make any suggestions on where to begin it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you Carole

Olga's reply: The web site of DirecciКn Nacional de Migraciones de Argentina is
http://www.migraciones.gov.ar
Buenos Aires office's address is:
Av. AntДrtida Argentina 1355, Retiro, Buenos Aires, Argentina.

Olga,
Are you familiar with a Polish slave labor camp close to Munich (Munchen) called SLONIE? It's a Polish name. Whether it's the name of the camp or just a Polish name, I don`t know... Just found out that`s were my mother was taken for about 3 years when she was about 16 years old....The information on your web-site is always interesting and informative. Thanks, Stan Bycko

Hi Olga, You can't get tired of hearing how great a service you provide. I came across this site because I am trying to gather any little tidbit of information for my husband who born in a refugee camp in Munich. We know very little, and I still do not know where to start.

My husband's father was born in Translyvania, Romania, his mom, in Budapest. Their first son was born in Dauchon, but had a different dad from the following 4 boys, but we have no name. The following 4 boys were born in various refugee camps in Germany.One was born in Munich Germany.

The whole family immigrated to the U.S. believed to be in 1955. My husband remembers seeing the Statue of Liberty as the boat was near the end of it's journey. He also remembers the train ride from the east to California where they settled in El Monte CA. He says a church sponsored his family or group.

Both parents have passed. We are quite sure his mom has living family in Hungary and in Romania. She went back to Hungary and visited her remaining relatives. She came back very happy and had a very good feeling about the experience, but shared very little of actual helpful info. We are trying to get a connection with a translator so we can contact people listed in the phone directory with same surnames.

Thank you again for giving, you are blessed. Iva Konya

12/28/04 Hi Olga
This is a long shot but we are looking for a girl born near Munich? Oct 1945. We have the first name of the (mother Auntrij or Ontray) and the baby girl, Stormy, but no last name--sadly the mother died giving birth. Our father talked of her always and Stormy did write Dad a letter in 1966 but we don't have any other information to go on. We tried to trace military records but find more questions than answers would you have any suggestions Our father passed in 1994. The boys in our family talked of two things: 1) Dad told them they liberated a camp there were women that looked healthy and taken care of but had been used as experiments, and 2) They let them go. We are wondering if that could have been Ontray. Also dad said there was a large statue of Jesus with a cellar underneath. It that was a landmark at end of war in Germany. I know it must be hard to try to keep up with the web site and to try to help so many. Thank you, Olga. We have been trying every thing and truly appreciate your time and advice. I will try your recommendations. Linda

1/4/05
I am trying to find about my mother's family.
I was born in Loipfering, Germany in 1944.
Mother's name: Theres Liebl. She was Catholic I don't know what this means: "Geb. Rg. Nr. 60 Eging." (Eging is a city in Germany).
My birth certificate says: International Refugee Organization. Area 7 Legal Consultation Office - Laitpold Caserne Munich.
My adopted father: Boris Charatjan, worker, national of Russia. Married to Theres Charatjan, born Liebl, married in Bad Hohenstadt, both were residing in Grunwald, Bavaria Germany. Renate Theresia Liebl

10/24/05 My father in law escaped Lithuania, and spent time with this mother and older brother in a DP camp north of Munich. He says it was called English Scott. I am trying to get any and all information for this camp as I cannot find it online. Thanks, Mary Strickland Dibonas


Munich-Laim Area Team 1066

MЭnchen Neu Freimann

Rosenheim looks to been the largest DP Camp near Munchen???
http://www.dpcamps.org/dpcamps/index.html

[Marisa]

What is the family history? Where did the family settle?

My family settled in the United States. The end of the war found them in Italy where they lived in various DP camps for 5 years while my father fought repatriation, they were eventualy sent to the U.S. I have documents from the time they entered Italy. After leaving the Ukraine they spent time in a forced labor camp near Munich. They left there before the allies reached it so I'm wondering if there would have been any record of them somewhere in German archives?

[Hannia]

???
A few kilometers SE of Munich there was Stephankirchen, a Dachau subcamp. It was one of 123 Dachau subcamps and this particular camp housed slave labor for the nearby BMW plant. Others were held at Rosenheim.

The Germans were very thorough record keepers. All Ostarbeiters were documented.

Did Father escape the German labor camp? Why did he head to Italy?

[Marisa]

Did Father escape the German labor camp? Why did he head to Italy?

Somehow he had heard that any p.o.w or dps who had been used as forced labor were being executed or sent to Siberia upon being returned to the USSR for having "aided" the enemy. When the Russians reached Germany and were approaching the labor camp all chaos broke loose and apparently the Germans just took off. He along with my mother and older brother left with a group of refugees and wound up in Italy. They didn't particularly plan to head for Italy, just wound up there.