Nationality record

[bobrka]

My grandparents born in Ukraine, and as far I know, my grandfather was Austro-hungarian, but I have not records just his birth certificate where don't appear the nationality just the place where he born in 1900.

I need a record where appear written by the original country, his nationality.
The Embassy suggested me something like military document or passport copy.

It's possible to find just with a name and date of birth, this kind of records.
Or exist some other papers where I could be able to find this information???.

[Hannia]

In 1900 your Grandfather was a Austro-Hungarian citizen. If he were born 19 yrs later, he would have been a Polish Citizen. If he were born 45 yrs later he would have been a Soviet Citizen & would have been acknowledged worldwide as Russian. His nationality/ethnicity did not change, he was always Ruthenian.

At the turn of the century, your Grandfather did not need a passport to travel. All he needed was his metrika and a travel paper issued by the district office that he turned in when he boarded the boat.

The Historical Archives should have a record of your Grandfather travel permission papers. Ask Ihor to check if those records are in the Historical Archives or in the State Archives or still in the RAHS?

[bobrka]

Hannia, I will do the request to Ihor.

Another question when the immigrants started to need a passport for travel, I mean in which year?
My grandfather did travel in 1927.
And How long was the trip from Ukraine to South America? Could be possible that this trip taked just one month!!!

Those questions are important to me because I need ask in the port a paper when he arrive and I need these info.

Thanks

[bobrka]

I'm agree with you about of he was Ruthenian without to care in which dates he was born, considering the place in that he made it.
But here in the Embassy, the diplomatic peoples tell me another thing, they said me that the regulation to obtain the citizenship is based in the laws of these time (1900-1937). And the law say that the person who born in 1900 in these territory, if was a man, the nationality or citizenship was directly taking from his father. They said his citizenship was continue by blood not for the territory where he born. And if the person was a woman, she take the nationality of his husband.
Only the descendant of a men can continue his citizenship by this way.
They also said that the birth record that I have only evidence the place where he has born, not his nationality, because the law considered to this time. Also because my father has born in 1937, they apply this same law, because of what my father will be a Austro-hungarian as same as my grandfather and his father.
After 1937 the law consideration changed and started to be considerate the citizenship by the place where the people be born.

I hope this explanation be clear to understand my previous request and maybe help to other in some way.
I know this issue is not easy to understand sometimes more for us, descendant peoples who know a little about the country and also because we are so far.

[vivandr]

Hi Bobrka,

I think you still misinterpret the notions of citizenship and nationality.

You wrote: ⌠And the law say that the person who born in 1900 in these territory, if was a man, the nationality or citizenship was directly taking from his father. They said his citizenship was continue by blood not for the territory where he born. And if the person was a woman, she take the nationality of his husband.■

Are you writing about nationality or citizenship there?

According to dictionary: citizenship is the legal status of being a citizen of a country.

You may find also many other definitions at:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&l...ne:Citizenship

If your grandmother or grandfather were born in Austro Hungary in 1990 to the citizens of Austro Hungary they were Austro Hungarian citizens. If your father was born in 1937 he could not be considered as Austro Hungarian citizen because Austro Hungary did not exist at that time. Also it is unlikely that he was considered citizen of Poland, which was legal successor of Austro Hungary with respect to Galicia, but it is possible because if your grandfather immigrated in 1927, he already became citizen of Poland (starting from 1919-1920).

Citizenship is something that can be changed when you immigrate to other country and fulfill all necessary requirements that are different in each country. There are also countries that allow double citizenship, for example, Panama. For example, former Prime Minister of Ukraine, Lazarenko, who is citizen of Ukraine, had also Panama citizenship, and correspondingly Panama passport, that allowed him to travel throughout the world without the need for any visa.

You may consider citizenship as a marriage, which is binding legal commitment, but which allow legal cessation of this commitment, end entering another. By analogy, some countries allow few wives.

Nationality or ethnicity is different, and it relates to the parents. It is something that cannot be changed, and does not depend on where you where born and when. It is more related to religion, customs, language and self-identification of parents. When both parents belong to one nationality then nationality of child is automatically determined. If there is mixed marriage, then nationality is determined according to customs and rules of thumbs of the particular country and time period. In the case of Galicia, and mixed Polish-Ukrainian marriages, you should look at the religion, church where child was christened. If it was Roman Catholic then nationality would be Polish in majority of cases. If Greek Catholic than Ruthenian (Ukrainian). But I think that it is very artificial, and if there was mixed marriage, the child nationality was also mixed.

I know that different nationalities have very different approaches to this question, but I just want to show you the difference between citizenship and nationality. Nationality is very deep question and you would need to consult some specific literature for each particular case.

Vitaliy