unknown words, language

[josephfl]

while talking to my grandmother recently, she used some words that we needed help with. first, she said that her father from Starysambor, Ukraine, played a wind instrument called a pashoka? any ideas anyone? also,she said that he often spoke a language that she could not understand. she could only remember one word, (dont know spelling)"why-o", which meant many or alot. finally, mom called her uncle "weeko steve". presumably he was carpatho-rusyn, but does anyone know the origin and spelling for "weeko"?

many thanks for your help. --joe

[forest]

Not very good at transliteration But dyadko is uncle as is voyiko ,its simmilar in sounding to your weeko. bahato means many or alot. Someone on here will know better than me so be patient and you will get a better reply. Stary Sambir is virtually on the Polish - Ukraine border so there might be Polish influences in there .

[LEMKO2]

this is special dialekt in Ukrainian language called Lemkos dialket very specific language indeed !

[Hussar_]

Lemkos was Poles who became Orthodox, cause orthodox missonaries come before catholics to south poland mountains.......so when they orthodox some started using Orthodox as they was Ukes when they never lived in ukraine only poland...today a little part off lemko lands is ocupied by ukraine...

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by Hussar_
Lemkos was Poles who became Orthodox, cause orthodox missonaries come before catholics to south poland mountains.......so when they orthodox some started using Orthodox as they was Ukes when they never lived in ukraine only poland...today a little part off lemko lands is ocupied by ukraine...

Hussar, it does not make much sense trying to attribute Ukrainian, Russian or Polish nationality for Lemkos at all cost. Scholars usually classify them as Ukrainian highlanders but Lemkos manifested their degree of separation from all major national cultures. There is no need to classify them so strictly. Ancient lands where they lived have always been kind of not easily accessible borderland.

[Hannia]

THERE WAS NO POLAND FOR ABOUT 125 YRS PRIOR TO 1919. Then it existed for a very brief 20 yrs. Poland disappeared as a geopolitical entity about the time that America appeared as such.

Most Lemkos lived in what is referred to as Galicia>ONLY administered by ethnic Poles for the Austro-Hungarian Empire. There was a time when the Polish Kingdom, by virtue of its many aggressions, was indeed the largest state in Europe, but that was an awfully long time ago.

Rusyn (19th century name,Lemko) history has been tracked to Kievan Rus times. THE RUSYN WERE EASTERN SLAVS. Their connection to Christian Orthodoxy dates back to 10th century.
___________________________________________________________________________



[Edited by Hannia on 25th February 2004 at 02:07]

[Hussar_]

hannia what makes u think ure rigth? i say what i belive and u have ures.....remember commie times isnt in this forum ure illiterat ass needs to acept that lemkos in my family speak polish not ukrainian...and kievan rus ocupied areas wich had polish tribes...didnt u read? lemkos was polish tribes but when kievan rus occupy this area they make lemkos orthodox....after some lemkos get brainwashed by ukraine nationalists....how u trak them to kievan rus? where in chronolgies are lemkos mentioned? i never heard a lemkos trak back to 900 century...u think ure god i think u need a visit to mental institution hanni....second kievan rus didnt acess lands so far into poland...its simple munks who came with orthodox religion before catholics did....
hearda about whit croats? they inhabit galicia region and they where not east slav but polish west slav tribe, after kievan rus come and make pagan white croats orthodox and in west they became catholic...their capital was krakow....galicia and podolia are polish tribes origin....podolia is typical polish namned...

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/w/...jk/jazch2.html

http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/cra/chap3.htm


During the 440s, an Asiatic people known as the Huns crossed through the Slavic homeland and burst into east-central Europe, bringing with them Slavic peoples, some of whom settled in Carpathian Rus'. A century later, one of the tribes living in the original Slavic homeland known as White Croats had begun to settle in the valleys of the northern as well as southern slopes of Carpathian Rus'.

In the course of the sixth and early seventh centuries, the White Croats built fortified towns to protect their own people as well as the surrounding countryside which still included some Slavic settlers who had settled there earlier during the Hunnic invasions. During the seventh century, many of the Slavic tribes began to move out in various directions from their original homeland. Whereas some White Croats remained behind in Carpathian Rus', most moved southward into the Balkan peninsula. Their descendants are the modern Croats.

The first important event in the history of Carpathian Rus' occurred during the second half of the ninth century. In the early 860s, two missionaries from the Byzantine Empire, the brothers Cyril and Methodius, set out to bring the Christian faith to the Moravian Empire, which at the time was centered in what is today the eastern Czech Republic (Moravia) and western Slovakia. To this day, Carpatho-Rusyns believe either: (1) that before their mission to Moravia Cyril and Methodius brought Christianity to Carpathian Rus' and even established a bishopric at the fortified center of Mukacevo, or (2) that this was accomplished during the 880s by the disciples of the Byzantine missionaries. Regardless of who actually did the conversion, it does seem certain that there was some kind of Christian presence in the Carpathians well before the end of the ninth century.

The very end of that same century brought another event that eventually was to have a profound effect on Rusyn historical development. Sometime between 896 and 898, a new Asiatic warrior people, the Magyars (ancestors of the modern-day Hungarians), crossed the crests of the Carpathians and settled in the region known as Pannonia, that is, the flat plain between the middle Danube and lower Tisza Rivers. From their new home, the Magyars eventually built a state called Hungary.

When the Magyars first crossed the Carpathians, they captured the White Croat hill fortress of Hungvar (modern-day Uzhorod). There they defeated the semi-legendary Prince Laborec', who was later to become one of the first heroes of Rusyn history. Despite their military victory, the Magyars were initially unable to take control of Carpathian Rus', which during the tenth and for most of the eleventh century remained a borderland between the kingdom of Hungary to the south and the Kievan Rus' principality of Galicia to the north. In the absence of any outside political control. Slavs from the north (Galicia) and east (who actually arrived from Podolia via the mountain passes of Transylvania) continued to settle in small numbers in various parts of the Carpathian borderland, which the Hungarians and other medieval writers referred to as the Marchia Ruthenorum - the Rus' March. These new immigrants, from the north and east, like the Slavs already living in Carpathian Rus', had by the eleventh century come to be known as the people of Rus', or Rusyns. The term Rusyn also meant someone who was a Christian of the Eastern (Byzantine) rite.

Rusyn migration from the north and east, in particular from Galicia, continued until the sixteenth century and even later. This was possible because the mountains, especially in western Carpathian Rus' (the Lemko Region), were not very high and were crossable through several passes. The sixteenth century also witnessed another migration into Carpathian Rus', this one by Vlach shepherds from the south. The Vlachs were originally of Romanian origin, although they were quickly assimilated by the Rusyns. The Vlachs moved throughout the entire range of the Carpathians as far west as Moravia. Their name Vlach soon came to mean a profession (shepherd) and legal status (tax-free person) rather than a nationality (Romanian).



Carpatho-Rusyn peasants working on church lands as depicted in a seventeenth century line drawing.

The purpose of this somewhat extended discussion of early history is to emphasize the complex origins of the Carpatho-Rusyns. They were not, as is often asserted, exclusively associated with Kievan Rus', from which it is said their name Rusyn derives. Rather, the ancestors of the present-day Carpatho-Rusyns are descendants of: (1) early Slavic peoples who came to the Danubian Basin with the Huns; (2) the White Croats; (3) the Rusyns of Galicia and Podolia; and (4) the Vlachs of Transylvania. Moreover, because Carpatho-Rusyns received Christianity over a century before Kievan Rus', it is likely that they used the name Rusyn and were called by others Rusyn (Latin: Rutheni) even before the arrival of subsequent Rusyn migration from the north and east. On the other hand, because their Eastern-rite Christian religion derived from Orthodox Byzantium, Carpatho-Rusyns maintained cultural and religious ties with the Kievan Rus' principality of Galicia to the north, with Moldavia/Transylvania to the south, and other Orthodox lands (central Ukraine and later Russia) farther east. Carpathian Rus' was not, however, under the political hegemony of Kievan Rus' nor for that matter of any other East Slavic political entity until the second half of the twentieth century! Instead, Carpathian Rus' has historically been within political and cultural spheres that are firmly part of central Europe.

By the second half of the eleventh century, Rusyn lands south of the Carpathians came under the control of the kingdom of Hungary. Hungarian rule remained firmly entrenched until 1526, after which most of the kingdom was conquered by the Ottoman Turks. The small amount of land that still constituted Hungary, including Rusyn-inhabited territory, was divided between the Austrian Habsburg Empire and the semi-independent Hungarian principality of Transylvania. The Ottoman presence lasted until the outset of the eighteenth century, when the Habsburgs finally gained control of all of Hungary, including Transylvania. Consequently, Habsburg Hungary was to rule Rusyn lands south of the Carpathians until 1918.

u can see that the white croats where assimilated to orthodox slavs and there was also imigration from podolians to these places and wlachs..since the podolians where a polish tribe who was also ukenized....so lemkos are a mix off white croats...podolian who where polane tribe and wlachs from romania...and the lemkos was first in contact with ruthenians in 1300 century....theres a diferenc betwen being under kievan rus and being christianed by byzantine missonaries...if u read hannia they wasnt even in kievan rus...Lemkos are first Lemkos then Polish then Ukraine...the only conection to ukraine is crylic and orthodox this come as a pakage since the missonaries from byzantine learned them crylic and orthodox something nothing to do with kievan rus...and they are uniate-orthodox who ukes never liked...

http://www.euratlas.com/big/big1000.htm
if u watch this map white croats are idependant and Polanes are origin tribe to podolians people off the plains...and kievan rus no way near lemko lands it was Poland, and Polanes on podolia was later assimilated to ukraines and hutsul,moldavians etc.....so u see hutsul,lemkos,podolians are in real polanes and white croats who become orthodox cause they near orthodox regions.....the wlachs also influence

[Edited by Hussar_ on 24th February 2004 at 15:09]