various spellings of last name/ anyone speak german?

[honcho40]

trying to find relatives in ukraine;father iwan,grandfather dimitri,uncle anton came over from german dp camps in 1945 have different spellings of name not sure of original
tschornohorec
czornohorec
tschornogorez
chernogorez
also have names of dp camps may have been in but not listed in computer kartenstelle
deisenhofen
oberhaching
oberbayern
also if jelisawetgrad/ukraine on german driver license for iwan maybe home town of father but not sure

[Hannia]

Was вНПМНЦНПЕЖ family from a large town or small village in vicinity?


Jelisawetgrad/Elisabethgrad = Kirovohrad today, Eastern Ukraine.

Kirovohrad, city in central Ukraine, capital of Kirovohrad Oblast, on the Inhul River, about 100 km (about 60 mi) northwest of Kryvyy Rih. Located on the fertile Dnieper River upland where grains, sugar beets, and sunflowers are grown, Kirovohrad is an agricultural trade and machine-building center and a highway hub. It has a rail depot and an airport. Known for its large farm machinery plant, the city also produces other machine components, food products, consumer goods, and building materials. Institutions in Kirovohrad include an institute of agricultural machine building, a teacher training institute, a pilot school, a music and drama theater, a puppet theater, a philharmonic orchestra, and a regional museum. Kirovohrad also has churches from the 19th century and part of the site's original fortress (built in 1754), then called Saint Elizabeth. Founded on Zaporozhian Cossack territory by the Russian imperial government, the fortress protected settlers on Russia's southern frontier from the raids of Ottomans and Crimean Tatars. It served as a base of operations against the Ottoman Empire from 1768 to 1774 during the Russo-Turkish Wars. The town that grew up around the fortress was named Yelizavetgrad in 1775. Major growth occurred after the arrival of a railroad in the late 1860s and the establishment of the British-owned Ellworthy farm-machinery plant in 1874. The city was renamed Zinov'yevs'k in 1924, Kirove in 1934, and Kirovohrad in 1939. Population (1998 estimate) 270,000.

PS> In order to read surname written using Cyrillic, place you cursor on any part of this window where it is blank (outside of immediate message box). Right Click. Click ENCODING. Click WINDOWS CYRILLIC.




[Edited by Hannia on 18th August 2003 at 04:06]

[honcho40]

Looking for relatives would like too get in contact
still don't understand the name after encoding
thanks for what u have given me so far

[Hannia]

вНПМНЦНПЕЖ transliterated (sounds like) as Chornohoretz, or some variant of same. You have to speak the name out loud. THE ONLY CORRECT SPELLING IS IN ITS ORIGINAL LANGUAGE, using its ORIGINAL ALPHABET. No matter how you spell it in English or German, it still sounds like Chor-no-ho-retz, which in Ukrainian means a person living on the dark/black mountain.

tschornohorec = Chornohoretz
czornohorec = Chornohoretz
tschornogorez = Chornohoretz (not a good transliteration - listener had bad ear)
chernogorez = Chornohoretz "

Ukrainian Transliteration Table
http://pages.prodigy.net/l.hodges/translit.htm

Chornohoretz is a Cossack surname.
________________________________________________________

WHERE DID CHORNOHORETZ SETTLE??? WHAT COUNTRY????
________________________________________________________

burb Deisenhofen is in Oberhaching (State, just above the Austrian border near Munich/Munchen). Oberbayern is the Upper Bavaria District. Could be that Deisenhofen is in that district???

IF YOU WANT MY HELP, U NEED TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS.

[Edited by Hannia on 15th January 2004 at 17:18]

[honcho40]

My father Iwan and my grandfather Dimitri were in DP camps durung the war were they were firefighters for the US Army
after the war they came too New York City then moved too Buffalo, New York USA.From what you say about the meaning of the nameI remember my father saying about the black mountains and the Cossacks. What exactly is a " cossack".
Do you know if there is any family history for the chornohoretz name?
Thank you so much

[vivandr]

Hi honcho40,

As Hania wrote already Chornohorets▓ in Ukrainian language means person who lives or originates from black mountain.

Your surname consists of two Ukrainian words: ⌠chornyj■ √ black, and ⌠hora■ √ mountain.

Other possible meaning of the surname is person who came or originates from Chornohoria. Chornohoria is the Ukrainian name for the coutry Montenegro, former Yugoslavian republic (see for example http://www.visit-montenegro.com/ or http://www.montenegro.org/). Citizen of Montenegro in Ukrainian would be called chornohorets▓. But certainly this does not imply that you should have connection to that country.

Using google search in Ukrainian, I found that famous Ukrainian historic novelist Panteleymon Kulish, used your surname (shortened version: Chornohor) in his famous historic novel ⌠Chorna Rada■ (⌠Black Council■), which narrates about kozak times. So there is some possibility that your roots are somewhere among kozaks of Zaporizzia.
The link to this book (in Ukrainian) is the following:
http://www.utoronto.ca/elul/P_Kulish...ada/index.html
I am sure that with the desire it is possible to find somewhere its English translation. The surname used in the novel may be just fiction but most probably there were some historical facts that Kulish used it.

Also among the curious facts about the name Chornohorets▓ I found that there is one sort of watermelon in Ukraine, called Chornohorets▓. See picture at:
http://agroua.net/plant/vegetables/s...idp=38&ids=379


Also at the following link
http://lib.ru/SU/UKRAINA/TEL_NYUK/graye_si.txt
you would find book by Stanislav Tel▓niuk ⌠ Play of the blue see■ (also historic fiction).
In the beginning of the story author says that this story is based on the real historical facts about common fight of Ukrainians, Russians, Moldavians and Greeks against Turkish enslavement. The events took place at the beginning of 17s century. Book is part of trilogy about Zaporizzia▓s kozaks.
Story is that son of Turkish sultan Yahia, whose mother is Greek, escapes from Istanbul to Chornohoria (country). There Yahia took the name of Olexandr Chornohorski, and then goes to Ukraine, and joins Zaporizzia kozaks to fight against sultan rule in Turkey, and for peaceful coexistence of Turkey with other nations. It is even more looks like fantasy, but author wrote that there are historical foundations to this story.

Also in the Carpathian mountains in Ukraine there is mountain with the name Chornohora (Black Mountain). See for example:
http://www.karpaty.com.ua/?chapter=2&item=3
It is written there that it is the highest mountain range at the boundary of Ivano Frankivsk and Zakarpatska regions.
See also:
http://lvivecotour.com/chornohora.html
http://www.uazone.net/Travel/Krpt98/
http://members.aol.com/chornohora/region.htm
http://www.encyclopediaofukraine.com...Chornohora.htm

There the highest Ukrainian Carpathian Mountain Hoverla is located (2061 meters).

In order to get some thoughts who Ukrainian kozaks were and what they fought for, it is necessary to read any History of Ukraine book. Online you can have a look at the following pages among others:
http://www.koza.kiev.ua/emain.htm
http://www.ukrweekly.com/Archive/2002/020227.shtml
http://members.aol.com/UKIRAMR6/old/ukr06.htm
http://www.unicorne.org/orthodoxy/ar.../patriarch.htm
http://www.uast.org/History.htm

Good luck in your search,
Vitaliy
vivandr@brandeis.edu

[honcho40]

Thanks for the info you have given me so far.It is more than I ever thought I would possibly get from any where.It is so hard too get any info for the fact that my father and grandfather have passed away and their are no other relatives in the USA that would have any info on them. All their relatives are still in the ukraine. I am hoping too someday get in touch with anyone from there.If there is any info you can find on the exact location of this name as of today in the areas you have given me hopefully there is still someone in the same area.