Hertzbergs in Mogilev

[Debbly]

Hi Everyone,

I am trying to track down some information or relatives of my ancestors who emigrated to England around 1820s.

Documentation I have for them indicates they came from Plodoloe Mogilev South Russia. After initially thinking this was a small village in the Mogilev province of Belarus I have now come to the conclusion it is more likely that they were from the town of Mogilev (Mohyliv) Podolia.

My reasoning behind this is that there was a book written in the late 1800s (after their deaths) that mentions my relatives and says they were from White Russia which is Belarus however I have since discovered this was an assumption based on the naturalisation papers of one of the ancestors which only states Russian Federation - no mention of White Russia.

The ancestors I am seeking used the names Phineas Henry, Peter Henry and Henry Henry in Manchester Lancashire England.

Literature indicates that Phineas and Peter were brothers. From the census Phineas was born somewhere around 1780 - 1795. I have no birth date from Peter as I can find no records of him other than the book reference which mentions him. Henry Henry is the son of Phineas and he was born between 1800 - 1815.
The family were Jewish and Phineas was a leader in the synagogue in Manchester in the late 1820s.

Phineas was a silk merchant and seemed to be relatively affluent as he has a couple of servants on the census. In the book it says he ran his business with his brother Peter.

There is no mention of any wives for either Phineas or Peter, although according to family stories that have been passed down, Phineas supposedly married in England we cannot find any record of it at this stage, he is shown as a widower on the census. Presumably he either left his first wife in Russia, or she died either in Russia before 1820 or in England between 1820 (when Phineas arrived in the UK) and 1841 (the first English census which shows him alone).

Henry Henry married an English girl and converted to Christianity. He had seven children one of whom - James - was given the middle name Hertz. James in turn called his son Alfred Hertzberg Henry.

Given all the other middle names of Henry Henry's other children are either given names or are linked to the English side of the family. This leads me to suspect that the family's name in Russia was either Hertz or Hertzberg.

I have looked at Jewish / Russian names that could have been anglised to those of my ancestors and came up with the following:

Phineas - Pinkus
Henry - Hanz

Given the surname ends in Berg rather than iv or ov there may also be a German link within the family.

The only other story I have about the family is a story that has been passed down which indicated the Russian family were very angry that Peter and Phineas moved to England and at one stage came to England, hired a black carriage and rode around the block their house was on three times to signify they have been disowned. I do not know if this really happened or if this is even a method of disowning that is linked to Russian Jewish culture.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Debby in Australia

[Hannia]

Plodoloe Mogilev South Russia

You are looking for what is today district center town Mohyliv-Podilskij (Могилів-Подільський in Ukrainian) > Vinnytska oblast/region, which was formerly the Podolskaya gubernia/governate > Tsarist Russia, when your ancestors lived here.

JewishGen Locality Page - Mohyliv-Podilskyy, Ukraine

Tracing the Tribe: The Jewish Genealogy Blog: Ukraine: Mogilev-Podolskiy, the lost Jewish city
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It is not unreasonable to think that the brothers had Aszkenazi roots in Germany, and eventually their families migrated to Southern Russia via Polish Lithuanian Empire , now in what is Northern Poland -Belarus?

http://hugr.huji.ac.il/AshkenaziJews.aspxa

Beyond the Pale: Life in the Pale of Settlement
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Phineas - Pinkus
Henry - Hanz

Pinkus is exc possibility.
I question Hanz, which is equivalent to John in English, might not be viable possibility. Hersh might be a better choice.
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The only other story I have about the family is a story that has been passed down which indicated the Russian family were very angry that Peter and Phinea moved to England and at one stage came to England, hired a black carriage and rode around the block their house was on three times to signify they have been disowned. I do not know if this really happened or if this is even a method of disowning that is linked to Russian Jewish culture.

Death of an apostate Jew

There is no mourning for an Apostate Jew according to Jewish law. (See that article for a discussion of precisely what actions and motivations render a Jew an "apostate.")

In the past several centuries, the custom developed among Ashkenazic Orthodox Jews (including Hassidic and Haredi Jews), that the family would "sit shiva" if and when one of their relatives would leave the fold of traditional Judaism. The definition of "leaving the fold" varies within communities; some would sit shiva if a family member married a non-Jew; others would only sit shiva if the individual actually converted to another faith, and even then, some would make a distinction between those who chose to do so of their own will, and those who were pressured into conversion. (In Sholom Aleichem's Tevye, when the title character's daughter converts to Christianity to marry a Christian, Tevye sits shiva for her and generally refers to her as "dead.") At the height of the Mitnagdim (anti-Hassidic) movement, in the early-to-mid nineteenth century, some Mitnagdim even sat shiva if a family member joined Hassidism. (It is said that when Leibel Eiger joined Hassidism, his father, Rabbi Shlomo Eiger sat shiva, but his grandfather, the famed Rabbi Akiva Eiger, did not.) By the mid-twentieth century, however, Hassidism was clearly recognized by everyone as a valid form of Orthodox Judaism, and thus the (controversial) practice of sitting shiva for those who realign to Hassidism ceased to exist.

Today, some Orthodox Jews, particularly the more traditional ones (such as many Haredi and Hassidic communities), continue the practice of sitting shiva for a family member who has left the religious community. Many centrist and left-wing Orthodox Jews, however, question and may not observe the practice for three reasons. Firstly, declaring the family member "dead" is a very harsh act that could make it much more difficult for the family member to return to traditional practice if/when s/he would consider doing so. Secondly, the definition of actively "leaving the fold" is rather vague today, especially as the majority of Jews today are not strictly observant Orthodox Jews. Thirdly, recent scholarship has shown that the source of the original custom, a story published in the twelfth century by Rabbi Isaac ben Moses of Vienna in Or Zarua regarding Rabbi Gershom ben Judah, contained a typographical error and was thus misunderstood. Rabbi Gershom had a son who had converted to Christianity. A text that had been read as, "Rabbi Gershom sat shiva for his son when he converted [Heb. k'she-nishtamed]", turned out to have been "Rabbi Gershom sat shiva for his son who had converte [Heb. she-nishtamed]", when the son actually died years later of natural causes.[17]

Bereavement in Judaism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Debbly]

Thanks for all the information Hannia its very interesting. I shall do a bit more research on the genealogy side but the cultural historical side is fascinating. I still wonder what made them come, perhaps they saw the writing on wall with the tzar.