Kursk

[Pierogies_4_Life]

Irena? I don't think it's right to blame the whole nation for the leaders decisions after all were all Germans nazi's in the Second World War? If my memory serves me correct Irena, Chernobyl was under the juristiction of the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic so I don't think you should be blaming the Russian Federation for what your government was under control.

Anyways Chechnya is a anonamous republic, it even shouldn't be called that, it's an oblast. It has been for 200 years. Anyways terror will not get you seperation and independence they should look at Quebec. In the 1970's the FLQ a seperatist radical extremist group were bombing English community stores and houses in the Montreal area. They later started to kidnap English speaking politicians and held them for ransom. One was even killed by the FLQ. They didn't get their desired seperation, most of them are in jail now.

Through terror you will not succeed. Look at Soviet Russia's attempt to win world socialism through a violent revolution in the 1920's. Poland kicked the Red Army back much farther then originally, after the Red Army invaded Poland to set up their dumb socialist revolution.

Irena no one deserves to die especially youth who are not responsible for their countries mistakes. Let's have an example:

If a your son enlisted in the Navy because he didn't want to go to a war against seperatist terrorists. And then you find out that the ship capsized. Is it his fault? He didn't do anything to deserve death. So why should have they deserved death if they aren't the policy makers.

I think you have no compassion for the fellow man, your a sinical evil person with no compassion or empathy for your fellow brother or sister.

[Lina]

You're right Norrym, there is also another side to the story. Instead of showing the Great Russian Fleet to the world, Russia showed what a pathetic form it is in.

I still do feel sorry for the sailors though. God bless their souls!!! Submarines blowing up during the peaceful time is a stuipid death for a soldier.

[Edited by Lina on 20th March 2001 at 23:32]

[Lina]

P4L, I do not hate Russia, but I also do not support their actions against Chechnya!

There is a difference between "terrorism" and "war for independance". The difference consists only from which point of view are you looking at the event.

You might find this interesting
http://www.ichkeria.org/russian/hist...hen-brief.html
http://www.russianculture.about.com/...y/aa092099.htm



[Edited by Lina on 21st March 2001 at 00:18]

[belgian]

Can you imagine yourself trapped in a cold dark metal room with no hope to get out alive? Waiting to die during those terrible minutes lenghtened to vivid details filled lifetimes as anyone experienced when faced with great danger. It's unbearable to imagine what they felt in the lest moments of their lives. We should do whatever possible to prevent such human tragedies happening again. Here is a nice message I found on the net:


"TO THE VALIANT WARRIORS OF THE KURSK

From the United States Navy Submarine Force and submariners around the world┘

Toe-to-toe, eye-to-eye we have faced each other under the silent seas. Unseen, unnoticed and unknown by most of our countrymen whom we were there to protect and defend. Once enemies, now only wary observers and today only brothers┘.

Only we, as few others can even begin to comprehend, know the full measure and extent of your sacrifice to your country as you went about your job. We know the isolation and loneliness you endured so that others might enjoy their families in peace. We know the years of children▓s lives lost and lover▓s arms unfilled. We know the unforgiving hostility of the environment in which you lived, equaled only by those who go into space, not for days or weeks but months on end. We, know the knowledge you carried with you every moment tucked neatly in a box in the corner of your mind, that you walked in the belly of a beast. A capricious beast who merely tolerated your presence. One that, at any moment, might decide to allow the most insignificant part of itself malfunction and devour you, as it has done. We, understand the unspoken fears and thoughts you carried with you of just such an eventuality. We, know the close camaraderie and bonding with your fellow shipmates, each there for the other √ each dependent on the other to be the very best they could be, as you faced the dark, cold, silent crushing depths together. Few men ever have the privilege of knowing the spirit of that bonding.
Now our thoughts and feelings turn to those who loved you and remain in this world without you. Our prayers ask to give them strength and solace for the pain and grief they are enduring. We hope the lessons to be learned from your death and ultimate sacrifice will be seized upon, by all nations and especially by yours, and be taken to heart by those who can correct the causes and can prevent it from happening again so that your deaths will not be in vain and may someday keep other brothers from the same fate.

Nevertheless, with honor and respect we shall keep your memory alive, as we do for our own that are Forever On Patrol┘┘."

[johncullen]

P4L I believe your assessment regarding Kursk is well informed. Letters were retrieved from Kursk written by remnants of the crew. A successful rescue of these men could have taken place, but for pride of Russian authorities, who attempted a rescue but failed, and the argument goes that since they (the russians) failed how could anyone else succeed. There was a successful entry into Kursk by i think british divers, but by then it was too late for the remaining crew. Later, one crew member's mother charged into putin and accussed him of causing the deaths of her son by not asking for western help. She was jabbed with a needle full of drugs in the back or the shoulder and collapsed. This was on live tv.
I think that our moderator Lina should reassess her attitude towards others. The best moderators are those who search out every angle of an argument and desist from rash judgements