9TH of May,Victory Day...

[Lvivske]

Originally Posted by Victor Lviv

- Surely - I'm arguing with it - as I'm really into history - (working part-time as a tourist guide here) - so read quite a number of TRUTHFUL books about WW2 - so TRUTH is - that Hitler's soldiers in 1941-1942 beaten bigger and much better eqipped Stalin's army - loosing probably 10 times less - and reds were running as rabbits - and number of POV and deserters in Red Army were counted in millions... - And in 1943-1945 - so-called "great soviet victory" was achieved by millions of senceless deaths of Petros, Ivans and Ahmeds... - And - face the truth - after WW2 Hanses and Adolfes in Germany lived much better than Petros, Ivans and Ahmeds in USSR

- If you wont the truth - register on torrents.ru - and download books by Mark Solonin - you'll be really surprised with facts...

you speak the truth, especially of the senseless deaths

a great scene is that in Enemy at the Gates, where the weaponless Red Army soldiers charged the Germans to defend Stalingrad...

[Ak-Murza]

You don't have to educate me on the WW2.My family had people fighting on both sides of it.But even those of my relatieves,who were OUN veterans,were mighty proud of the fact that in 1945 Cossaks did water their horses in Oder river...again.
If you want to sell your national pride for a few euros,it's your loss,dude.I'd rather be hanging on to it.

[Victor Lviv]

- Huh!!! - My NATIONAL PRIDE - are Ukrainians who fought for UKRAINE - not for Hitlers 3rd Reich - or for Stalin's Sovdep (as we call USSR here) - athough I agree - that all veterans of WW2 should be treated with respect - not only OUN-UPA heroes - but also Wehrmacht and Red Army victims...

- By the way - both 3rd Reich and USSR are in a deep grave now - but we've got independent Ukraine - so actually - OUN-UPA soldiers won!!!...

[Ak-Murza]

Never thought about it in that way,but,I think you're right.The only side,that's still arrownd today is Independant Ukraine.So,I guess,WE still won.

[Ak-Murza]

I'd have to agree with Irene on one point:communism has to be denounced,just like fashism was.The amount of evil that has been done and still being done by commies can not be compered to anything in Human History.
I can't say for everybody,but my grandfathers have fought for Russia,NOT for Stalin.And when it was my time to serve(under former USSR),my Granddad told me to go and be a solder and protector of Holy Rus',not Sovdep.And he handed me his chrusifix,made from silver he smuggled from Kolima mines,and I still wear it to this day.He was not bitter about his 8 years in Kolima as a "family member of a traitor to Motherland",as NKVD labeled him,becouse in his mind he never fought for the Reds,but for Mother Russia.

[Lvivske]

Originally Posted by Ak-Murza

be a solder and protector of Holy Rus',not Sovdep

Well said.
If we only could all have this mentality.

[V-G]

Originally Posted by Ak-Murza

My Grandfather was an Ukrainian nationalist.But he would damn to hell all those,who try to separate Ukrainians and Russians.I could care less about Kyiv and mAAskva and all those filthy politics.My concern is -people.Ivan,Petro and Ahmet were friends and brothers,and so they sould be long after ultra-nationalists scum is dead and forgotten.

You and I may just get along here.